>> Stephen Sanford: Good day. Welcome everyone to GAO's INTOSAI and International Capacity Development webinar. My name is Stephen Sanford. I am the Managing Director for Strategic Planning and External Liaison at the US Government Accountability Office in Washington, DC. We're very happy to have you all joining us today to help celebrate GAO's centennial anniversary this year of 100 years of providing oversight for the Congress. Today's celebration is designed to recognize the impact and the participation that GAO has had in the international audit community. Today's speakers and panelists highlight the historic involvement that GAO has had with INTOSAI and our collaboration with international capacity development efforts with many partners, both here in the US and across the world. A few housekeeping notes to get us started. We're very excited to have you join us today. Audience members will be in listen only mode as this is a webinar. So you cannot turn on your microphone or cameras as audience members. But we do encourage you to provide comments in the chat function. And with our agenda today, we will not have dedicated Q&A from audience members, but we will be reading the comments and following up as appropriate. This event is also being recorded and will be made available on GAO's Centennial webpage in the coming weeks. To start our program today, I'm very proud to introduce the Comptroller General of the United States. Gene Dodaro. Mr. Dodaro has served Congress and the American people as Comptroller General since 2010. And both prior to and during his tenure as Comptroller General, he has led numerous transformations and innovations at GAO to modernize and drive progress at the agency. But throughout his tenure, what has remained steadfast is his commitment to the international community, and keeping GAO at the forefront of international cooperation with the global audit and accountability community. So it's now my pleasure to turn the floor over to Mr. Dodaro. Thank you. >> Gene Dodaro: Thank you very much, Steve. Good day, everyone. As Steve mentioned, I'm Gene Dodaro, Comptroller General of the United States and head of the US Government Accountability Office. I'm very pleased to welcome you to today's event celebrating GAO's 100th anniversary. As Steve mentioned, the focus on our international engagement through the International Organization of Supreme Audit Institutions is the focus of this particular webinar, and we will discuss our efforts to build the capacity of supreme audit institutions and other countries. I understand we have participants joining us from around the world today, including heads of other supreme audit institutions. I want to offer a special welcome to all of our international partners. Throughout my career, and especially during my term as Comptroller General, I've emphasized the importance of GAO's international engagement through INTOSAI and capacity development initiatives. In particular, these efforts focus on developing international auditing standards, enhancing the capacity of our counterparts throughout the world through training and targeted assistance, and sharing knowledge and best practices through a variety of initiatives and mechanisms. Our current circumstances during the pandemic illustrate the global interconnectedness of all countries and continents, and underscore the common challenges and opportunities we face. I believe it's critical that we have strong and capable and independent supreme audit institutions in all countries. I also believe that we can be most effective in executing our duties when we understand and incorporate global best practices into our work. This is where the international collaboration with INTOSAI, its members, the donor community, foundations, civil society organizations, and other stakeholders can help all supreme audit institutions enhance accountability for their governments and for their citizens. I'm particularly grateful to my friend and colleague, Dr. Margit Kraker, the secretary general of INTOSAI and the president of the Austrian Court of Audit, for giving today's keynote presentation. Dr. Kraker and her excellent staff provide strong and effective stewardship of INTOSAI and its resources. They are key partners of GAO on a wide range of initiatives. Following Dr. Kraker's presentation, Mike Hix, GAO's Director of International Relations will lead a discussion with several GAO representatives to INTOSAI communities, so that our audience can learn more about the nature and impact of that aspect of our international engagement. Following the first panel, Steve Sanford, the managing director of Strategic Planning and External Liaison, will lead a panel discussion focused on key aspects of our international capacity building efforts. I would like to offer a warm welcome and express my gratitude to my friends and colleagues, Ed Olowo-Okere, and Einar Gorrisen, who will join GAO's Janet St. Laurent for the second panel. Ed is the World Bank's Global Director of Governance and serves with me in the leadership of the INTOSAI Donor Cooperation Initiative. He has decades of experience helping governments enhance financial management, and helping SAIs enhance their capability. Einar is the Director General of the INTOSAI Development Initiative, a private foundation in Oslo, Norway. IDI helps SAIs in developing countries enhance their performance and accountability, and is very much in support and alignment with the INTOSAI Donor Cooperation Initiative. With those introductions, I'll turn it back to Steve right now to introduce -- or excuse me, I'll turn it over to Dr. Kraker at this point. Margit. >> Dr. Margit Kraker: Thank you. Dear Mr. Dodaro, dear colleagues from the GAO and from our international community, thank you very much for your kind invitation to participate in the celebration of the 100th anniversary of the GAO. It's really an honor for me to speak on behalf of INTOSAI about our cooperation with the GAO on this important occasion. I assume that not all of you who are listening to us today have been regularly involved in INTOSAI matters. Therefore, I would like to start with a brief overview on INTOSAI's evolution and its main tasks. Ladies and gentlemen, dear colleagues, what is INTOSAI, the International Organization of Supreme Audit Institutions? INTOSAI is an autonomous, independent, professional and nonpolitical organization. Our main objectives are to promote strong supreme audit institutions through the exchange of knowledge, through capacity building, as well as standard setting. In order to support the exchange of experiences, a number of committees, working groups and taskforces have been established. Furthermore, INTOSAI aims to act as a recognized voice of SAIs within the international community. INTOSAI was founded in 1953 on the occasion of its first congress in Cuba. 34 SAIs participated in this Congress. The GAO was one of them, and is therefore among the founding members of INTOSAI. Today, INTOSAI counts 195 members from all around the world. Five associate members -- these are in international and professional organizations who share the goals of external government audit, like the World Bank or the Institute of Internal Auditors. And one affiliate member, the SAI of Guam, an overseas territory of the United States in the western Pacific. Already since 1963, the General Secretariat of INTOSAI has been run by the Austrian Court of Audit. The Supreme body of INTOSAI is the INTOSAI Congress, the so-called INCOSAI. It is the General Assembly of all INTOSAI members and meets every three years. In October 1992, the GAO assumed the important role of hosting the 14th INCOSAI in Washington DC. More than 400 delegates and observers from 120 countries participated in this congress. And then set for a milestone in INTOSAI's history was the adoption of the first strategic plan of INTOSAI in 2004. The GAO played an essential role in this regard. It chairs the task force that developed INTOSAI's first strategic plan. This plan laid the foundation for the establishment of four INTOSAI committees. The GAO took over the vice chairmanship of goal number four, the Finance and Administration Committee -- nowadays, it's called PFAC--Policy, Finance and Administration Committee. The current third strategic plan which covers the years 2017 to 2022, includes five cross-cutting priorities of INTOSAI. And the most relevant, for example, advocating for and supporting the independence of SAIs and contributing to the follow-up and review of the UN Sustainable Development Goals or SDGs. These two priorities have particular relevance for our member SAIs. Dear colleagues, SAIs can only fulfill the task effectively if they are independent. However, SAIs experience continuing challenges related to independence. This was confirmed by the 2020 Global SAI Stocktaking Report, which was recently published by the INTOSAI Development Initiative, the IDI. These developments show that advocating for SAI independence has become more important than ever for INTOSAI. To this end, we have taken action through several means. The IDI has developed a SAI Independence Rapid Advocacy Mechanism called SIRAM. This is a four stages mechanism. It aims to deliver effective responses to developments which may affect the independence of a SAI. INTOSAI is also closely working together with the donors in this regard. And this brings me to another key responsibility of the GAO within INTOSAI. In 2007, an INTOSAI Donor Fund was established and chaired by the GAO and the Comptroller General, Mr. Gene Dodaro. In 2009, a memorandum of understanding was signed between representatives of INTOSAI and 15 donor agencies. The INTOSAI Donor Fund became the Donor Cooperation. The Donor Cooperation brings together SAIs and the donor community. It provides a strategic focus with the aim to facilitate donor funding and support and strengthen SAI capacity in developing countries. And members of the Donor Cooperation are strongly supporting the independence of SAIs. And I want to mention that a few months ago, the World Bank has, for example, published an index, the 2021 Supreme Audit Institutions Independence Index. This index presents insights into the legal and operational independence of SAIs of 118 countries. Ladies and gentlemen, another priority to INTOSAI is the support of SAIs' contribution to the implementation of SDGs. SAIs can play an essential role in the achievement of SDGs by monitoring their implementation through the national governments. Therefore INTOSAI is supporting SAIs in auditing the measures taken by the governments. The General Secretariat is publishing the SDG reports of SAIs around the world in the SDG Atlas on the INTOSAI website. Additionally, SAIs see it as their particular responsibility to contribute to the achievement of goal number 16, which provides for peace, justice and strong institutions. They play an important role in promoting the efficiency, accountability and transparency of public administration. This was already confirmed by two resolutions of the UN General Assembly in 2011 and 2014. Current crises has highlighted this important task of SAIs even more. In this, but also many other areas, INTOSAI is intensely cooperating with other international organizations. Our most important partner is the United Nations. Together with the United Nations, we have not only supported SAIs around the globe in auditing the implementation of SDGs but we have also organized 25 UN INTOSAI symposia. These are capacity building events for our member SAIs during the last 50 years. Another main priority and necessity within the INTOSAI community is communication of course. For this reason, an INTOSAI Journal was founded in 1971. Eight years later, the GAO took over from Canada the responsibility for the INTOSAI journal. As the official publication of INTOSAI, the journal supports cooperation and knowledge sharing among SAIs and the accountability community. Another aspect of communication is to honor outstanding achievements. To this end, two INTOSAI awards were launched in 1981. The Elmer B. Staats Award, which has been named after the former Comptroller General Elmer B. Staats, is conferred for the best article published in the INTOSAI Journal. It is it is administered by the GAO. And the Jorg Kandutsch award is granted for outstanding contributions made by a SAI to INTOSAI. And this is administered by the General Secretariat. Dear colleagues, communication and cooperation were also key factors for INTOSAI and its member SAIs during the last one and a half years. INTOSAI had to face, like the whole world, entirely new challenges caused by the COVID pandemic. However, after a transition period in 2020, INTOSAI's operations continued seamlessly in a virtual mode. All INTOSAI meetings could be organized as planned for health promotion. SAIs around the world were very committed. They wanted to contribute the extensive experience gained from previous government responses to emergencies. The COVID-19 pandemic, however, had a negative impact on the audit work of many SAIs. They were facing serious problems due to the lack of digital infrastructure or budget restrictions imposed by governments. Therefore, the INTOSAI community reacted promptly and started several initiatives to support SAIs that were heavily affected by the pandemic. Under the leadership of Comptroller General Gene Dodaro, the INTOSAI Policy, Finance and Administration Committee initiated financial support for SAIs in need. So far, financial assistance could be granted to already more than 50 SAIs around the world. I would like to thank the GAO very much for our close cooperation in putting this important initiative into practice. The GAO also published a COVID-19 Lessons Learned report, which is summarizing the central lessons learned by INTOSAI and SAIs from the pandemic. So concluding, I would like to highlight that the GAO is a very active and important member of INTOSAI, and one of the most essential partners of the General Secretariat. GAO has been and is still essentially shaping INTOSAI's past, present and future. It contributes to no less than 24 INTOSAI working groups and task forces. It chairs the Working Group on Financial Modernization and Regulatory Reform. And it is co-chair of the Supervisory Committee on Emerging Issues, the INTOSAI Donor Cooperation, the Working Group on Big Data, and the newly established Working Group on the Impact of Science and Technology. And currently, the GAO is already for the fourth time chairing the task force, which is drafting the next strategic plan of INTOSAI 2023 to 2028. In addition to the priorities I mentioned before, this strategic plan will also reflect public needs, like resilient SAIs and equality. I'm convinced that this next strategic plan will set the basis for an agile, strong and relevant INTOSAI. And I would like to thank the GAO for its important contribution to shaping INTOSAI's future. Finally, I want to seize this opportunity to thank you, Mr. Gene Dodaro, for your support and for the excellent cooperation for the benefit of INTOSAI during the last years. And I would like to wish the GAO all the best for the next 100 years. Thank you very much, and congratulations. >> Gene Dodaro: Thank you very much, Dr. Kraker. I appreciate those sentiments and the excellent remarks that you provided this morning to begin our seminar. It's very helpful to have that perspective. And I also always appreciate your leadership of INTOSAI and the General Secretariat. Glad to see you looking well, and my best wishes to you, your family and your colleagues. And please enjoy the rest of the evening. And I will turn it over at this point to Steve Sanford, to continue the rest of the webinar. Thank you all very much. Have a good day. >> Stephen Sanford: Thank you very much to Mr. Dodaro and Dr. Kraker for helping us kick off today's event. And as Dr. Kraker mentioned, GAO has numerous ways it is closely involved with INTOSAI and with the international audit community. We're very pleased that our first panel today will highlight some of those activities. We're pleased to have several GAO executives who themselves over the years have demonstrated exceptional dedication and sustained contributions to GAO's cooperation with INTOSAI and with the wider international audit community. So to hear more about that, I'll hand the floor over to Mike Hix, who is GAO's Director of International Relations. Thank you. >> Mike Hix: Okay, thank you, Steve. Good day, everyone. I'm Michael Hix from GAO's Office of Strategic Planning and External Liaison. I serve as the Director of International Relations. The purpose of this panel is to provide the audience with some additional context on the work GAO does with our international counterparts through INTOSAI. At the highest level, we support the Comptroller General and GAO staff and their engagement with our international counterparts. As you've already heard during Dr. Kraker's excellent presentation, GAO has a long history of involvement with INTOSAI. And the Comptroller General serves on the INTOSAI Governing Board and is chair or vice chair of seven INTOSAI bodies. We also have GAO representatives on over 25 INTOSAI working groups and task forces. Our excellent group of panelists will provide some examples of what it's like to work with INTOSAI and the type of impact that this work can have. In addition to managing GAO's multilateral involvement with INTOSAI, our team also handles bilateral relations, capacity development through the INTOSAI Donor Cooperation and the International Auditor Fellowship Program, production of the INTOSAI Journal, as Dr. Kraker mentioned. We host international visits, and we also manage GAO's passport and visa program. As Dr. Kraker mentioned, the work of INTOSAI has shifted during the pandemic. And likewise, our work at GAO internationally has shifted as well during the pandemic. As Dr. Kraker mentioned, GAO has launched numerous international initiatives to help our counterparts maintain continuity of operations and conduct real-time audits of the pandemic response. With that, I'm pleased to welcome our distinguished panel of Ms. Berri Davis, Director in the Financial Management and Assurance team, and GAO's representative to INTOSAI's Forum on INTOSAI Professional Pronouncements and INTOSAI's Professional Standards Committee. Following Berri, we'll hear from Mr. Mark Gaffigan, Managing Director of the Natural Resources and Environment team, and GAO's representative to INTOSAI's Working Groups on Environmental Auditing and Extractive Industries. And following Mark, we'll hear from Ms. Michelle Sager, Managing Director of the Strategic Issues team, and GAO's lead on INTOSAI's Task Force on Strategic Planning. These panelists have a wealth of experience representing GAO internationally, and I'm particularly pleased to have Berri talk about her work on the development of international auditing standards, Mark talk about his work with INTOSAI bodies to focus on specific issues. And then Michelle will talk about a task force that she's co-leading to develop INTOSAI's five-year strategic plan. With that, I would like to ask Berri Davis to provide her opening remarks, followed by Mark and then Michelle. Hi, Berri, great to see you. Hope all is well with you and your family. And please go ahead. >> Berri Davis: Thanks, Mike. First, let me thank the Comptroller General for hosting this webinar, and thank SPEL's Managing Director Steve Sanford, and you, Mike, along with your colleagues, especially Brody, Kristie, and Paul, for your efforts to make this happen and thus give me the opportunity to talk about the subject of INTOSAI standard setting, which I believe is so important to enhancing the quality of the auditor's work. And of course this audit work can help to ensure governments are held accountable to their constituents. So let me talk about FIPP. My INTOSAI group is the Forum for INTOSAI Professional pronouncements, also known as FIPP or F-I-P-P. FIPP assesses and approves all documents that are included in the INTOSAI Framework of Professional Pronouncements, also referred to as the IFPP. There are three types of professional pronouncements: INTOSAI principles, international standards of supreme audit institutions -- also known as ISSAIs -- and guidance, also known as GUID. There is a formal due process for developing these pronouncements which requires FIPP's engagement and approval for each individual project in three phases. First, FIPP approves the project proposal, which describes the scope of the project. FIPP ensures that the new pronouncement will not overlap with or be inconsistent with other pronouncements, and then determines that the project is ready to launch. Following the development of the pronouncement by the project group, FIPP reviews and approves the exposure draft for each pronouncement, ensuring the draft product is of good quality, follows drafting guidelines and aligns with other INTOSAI pronouncements. Then after exposure, FIPP reviews the revised draft to ensure that comments during the exposure period have been appropriately addressed. At this point, FIPP approves the endorsement version, which then goes on for final approval to INTOSAI's Governing Board. A couple of examples of recent projects are the competency pronouncements which are dealing with auditor competency. They include one standard ISSAI 150, and two GUIDs, GUID 1950 and 1951. These are currently out for exposure. The deadline for comments is December 31st. So we would encourage everyone to go out and take a look at these documents and provide feedback. An example of a project which has completed the due process cycle is the Guidance to Financial Auditing Standards or GUID 2900. And this is going to go before the governing board this year. So what role does GAO play in FIPP? Well, FIPP consists of 16 members, including the Chair, Orson Hipson. These are subject matter experts from different countries. I have represented the SAI of the US and been a member of the FIPP since 2015, which is really before it became a formal body. Through my membership in FIPP, GAO assists in the review and approval of professional pronouncements through all phases of the development process, as I mentioned. Each project moving through the process has a liaison officer who is a member of FIPP. And this individual assists the project group in achieving each major milestone. This liaison officer meets periodically with the project team and communicates FIPP members' comments on any needed improvements to the draft pronouncement. I have served as the FIPP liaison officer for two projects. I was the liaison officer of the project developing guidance for the audit of public debt, which was approved by the Governing Board in 2020. And I am now serving as a liaison officer for the project group developing guidance on the audit of public procurement, which is very close right now to going to FIPP for approval for public exposure. Mike, I'd like to close or conclude my opening remarks by saying I'm honored to be a part of FIPP and I acknowledge it's a very small part of this important function to develop international standards, and in that way support the continuing professionalism of the SAI community. Thanks, Mike. [ Silence ] >> Mike Hix: Okay, thank you very much. Sorry for the small technical problem there, but I greatly appreciate the excellent overview of the work of the FIPP and your contributions. And I cannot underscore enough how important the development of high quality professional standards is to help SAIs around the world conduct high quality work that provides assurance that they're adhering to the best international standards. So with that, I would like to turn to Mark Gaffigan to talk about his work on the Working Group on Environmental Auditing and INTOSAI Working Group on the Audit of Extractive Industries. Please, Mark, go ahead. >> Mark Gaffigan: Thank you, Mike. And thank you to your team for putting this together. Pleased to be here to talk about working groups. Mike mentioned at the outset my role at GAO is the Managing Director for the Natural Resources and Environment team. And within INTOSAI, there are numerous working groups that specialize in particular issues. And not surprisingly, I'm involved with the Working Group on Environmental Auditing, and the Working Group on Extractive Industries, which focuses on oil and gas development and mining. And the overall theme of INTOSAI's overall vision is that mutual experience benefits all, and that's really just carried forward in the working groups on specific issues. And the working groups are involved in a number of activities. And in the case of both of these working groups, they work on developing guidance, and in some cases try to propose official guidance. And that's where we would interact with the FIPP Berri Davis just talked about. But we also try to identify opportunities for training. Again, mutual experience benefiting all as both teachers and students, we learn from each other. We focus on specific projects, for example, a focus on climate change or a focus on the cleanup of mining wastes in the extractive industries world. And that may lead to us working on collaborative audits with other countries, which is interesting. Also involved in communication activities, you know, newsletters. For a long time, we've been involved in the editing of a newsletter for the WGEA, the Working Group on Environmental Auditing. And we also recognize best practices, for example, awards and visual communication. So those are some of the activities that working groups will work on. A little bit about the Working Group on Environmental Auditing, it was established in 1992, so it's almost 30 years old. And it is the largest working group within INTOSAI. It has almost 80 members, and is currently chaired by the SAI of Finland. The Working Group on Extractive Industries is relatively new to the game, it was established in 2014, coming out of the INTOSAI Congress of 2013. And it since that time has been chaired by Uganda, and the US has been involved from the beginning of that on the steering committee. And that group has grown to almost 40 members today. To give you some examples of particular activities in each one of these working groups, they all have, each one of them has a three-year working plan which tries to coincide and be in line with the INTOSAI strategic plan, which I think Michelle may talk about in a minute. But the working groups, again, in those activities I described, try to identify activities each year to focus on. And I'll just give you some examples of recent projects. Within the Working Group on Environmental Auditing, we currently have three specific projects that we're focusing on looking at: plastics, which is, again a worldwide issue,climate finance and sustainable transport. We in particular, are leading the effort looking at climate finance, the commitment of countries to help finance climate-related activities in terms of adapting and mitigating the impacts of climate change within the Working Group on Environmental Audit. Within Extractive Industries, I should say, we have focused on developing what we call the Extractive Industries Toolkit, which takes a look at extractive industries from throughout the whole value chain of extractive industries -- from the legal framework for exploring and developing resources, to the actual awarding of leases and contracts to develop the resource, through developing the resource, the revenue streams that come out of the resource, and eventually, hopefully, the sustainable cleanup of that resource. So at each one of those parts of the value chain, we've identified key things for auditors to look at. It's a web-based tool. And we also reference various reports that different SAIs have done in these particular topics that are instructive to others. So those are a couple of examples in each group of the kind of things that we're working on. Both groups are very active in training. Of course, much of the effort recently has been through virtual training. But we collaborate on training. For example, our group did a recent presentation to the training group in India on our experience with renewable energy. And those kind of exchanges of information, I think, are what is really sort of key at the working group level to sort of fulfill the overall INTOSAI mission of mutual experience benefiting all. So that's just a quick overview. I would say if you're very interested in INTOSAI, obviously they have a website. There are links to all the working groups including the two that I spoke of. And there are many opportunities to get involved in your SAI and working on these various working groups. So again, thank you for your time, and Mike, I'll turn it back to you. >> Mike Hix: Thank you very much, Mark, for the excellent overview of the work that you're performing in the Environmental Auditing and Extractive Industries working groups. As a former member of your team, I also know that you're supported in your efforts by excellent staff of committed individuals who contribute to a variety of different aspects of your INTOSAI work. So thank you very much, Mark. And with that, I would like to turn to Michelle Sager, who we're working with in developing the next five-year INTOSAI strategic plan, as Dr. Kraker mentioned. So Michelle, good morning, nice to see you. And please go ahead. >> Michelle Sager: Well, thank you so much, Mike. It is such a pleasure and an honor to be a part of this distinguished panel. And as I was reflecting on both GAO's 100-year history and INTOSAI's nearly 70-year history, there were so many things that I wanted to be able to communicate in the course of explaining some of GAO's work on the Task Force on Strategic Planning. And what I settled on is five principles that have really exemplified how the Task Force on Strategic Planning conducts its work. And my sense is that this is common throughout INTOSAI. And those principles are inclusivity, openness, consultation, compromise and consensus. And so I say this recognizing that our work on the Task Force on Strategic Planning is something that is open to all members of INTOSAI. And that begins with first identification of the Task Force on Strategic Planning, which itself is very open and inclusive. It includes all of INTOSAI's goal chairs, as well as INTOSAI's regional organizations, IDI, and of course, the General Secretariat. As we conduct our work, our intent is to continue that spirit of inclusivity. And so one of the things that both the current Strategic Planning Task Force is planning for, the 2023 to 2028 strategic plan, as well as the prior task force that developed the current strategic plan, in the course of conducting our work, we have conducted an internal scan, a web-based survey that goes out to all of INTOSAI's members, trying to get a sense of their views on strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and challenges for INTOSAI as an organization. And that has included both a mix of closed ended questions as well as open-ended response, so that we can hear everything that INTOSAI's members want to share with us as we begin the work of the strategic plan. And this is, of course, communicated in all five of INTOSAI's languages, both in terms of distributing the internal scan survey, as well as incorporating the responses from all of INTOSAI's members. In addition to that, we also want to be inclusive in terms of thinking about all of INTOSAI's partners, some of whom you will hear from later this afternoon, morning or evening, depending on where you are listening in from. And so we also conducted an external scan, where we conducted structured interviews with INTOSAI's partners, again, around the globe. And that includes a number of transparency, good government, accountability, accounting, and other organizations that have views on INTOSAI's role as the global voice of public auditing. Again, asking them about strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and challenges. So that very open and inclusive process, we also try to communicate to INTOSAI's membership as we conduct the work of the taskforce. And that includes regular updates in the INTOSAI Journal of Government Auditing, as well as updates on the INTOSAI website so that any member of INTOSAI or any other interested party can know what is happening at any time. And then as the plan takes shape, it again continues that consultative process, certainly with the task force, through regular quarterly meetings. In the prior strategic planning period, we came together in person for a number of our meetings. In the current environment, that shifted immediately as the Task force began our work in 2020. And all of our work has been conducted virtually, and that in fact -- although we have not had the benefit of getting to know each other in quite the same way, it has allowed us to continue to be very inclusive and connect very directly electronically in a virtual environment. And that consultative process includes consulting with INTOSAI's goal chairs and regional organizations as what we call the zero draft of the strategic plan comes together, where we have input from the goal chairs to develop the text for the strategic plan, as well as from the entire task force on those cross-cutting priorities and the vision for the future for what we think INTOSAI would, should and could look like as we launch into the planning period that extends into 2028. Not knowing what the world will look like at that point, but being open to all of the emerging issues that we know will continue to emerge along the way. So that consultative process involves a lot of communication with all of our counterparts around the globe. And the GAO side of that operation includes, of course, Mike and his colleagues in our Strategic Planning and External Liaison Office, but also a group from our Strategic Issues team that in effect serves as kind of the back office operations, conducting those scanning efforts, pulling the initial draft of the plan together, and then eventually sharing that draft plan again with INTOSAI's entire membership for review and comment. So that is a very consultative process that involves many steps along the way. And as you might expect, as each step of that process precedes, we receive many comments, because INTOSAI's members reflect every political situation across the globe, every cultural background that you can envision, and of course, very different contexts. But nonetheless, we provide a lot of give and take as well as opportunity for that just along the way, and end up compromising as we learn more from each other. And that includes sometimes learning about terms, for example, that do or do not translate into INTOSAI's five languages in a way that is comprehensible around the globe. So for example, in the current strategic plan, we had a robust discussion about governance, and the extent to which that did and did not translate into other languages. And going forward, I fully expect we will have additional robust discussions along the way. The end goal then is to arrive at what we think of as kind of a consensus draft, where after we have proceeded through all of these steps that I've described at a very high level, we eventually end up with a draft plan that reflects all of that input along the way, so that INTOSAI members and task force members can see the input that they have provided. They see how we have arrived at a compromise language that reflects that input. And then we end up with a consensus draft that is presented to INCOSAI, the International Congress of Supreme Audit Institutions. So the current task force will be presenting that draft plan to INCOSAI next year, in 2022. We'll explain how we arrived at that plan. And we will then begin the strategic planning period, because in effect, it's a very dynamic process. It never really ends. The plan itself provides the framework and the guardrails for conducting INTOSAI's work within INTOSAI's statutes and committee roles, and all of the other governing documents that determine how we conduct the work. But we very much acknowledge that INTOSAI is a dynamic organization and will continue to be. And so I will end there. That's a very brief overview of our work on the task force on strategic planning. Again, it's an honor and a privilege to be able to represent the work of many, many throughout GAO, as well as the broader international community. And I look forward to the discussion. Thank you. >> Mike Hix: Thank you very much, Michelle. As we welcome back the rest of the panel for some more questions, I just want to acknowledge what an incredible effort it is putting together the INTOSAI strategic plan, as you've described. And I also want to acknowledge the contributions of my colleague in SPEL, Kristie Conserve, who is managing a lot of the work with our international partners for us on that. And then, as you mentioned, Michelle, you have an entire group of 20-something people or more in the Strategic Issues team that is also, as you said, providing the back office support for the development of the strategic plan. So it really is a massive effort and a very important effort. So it looks like we have the rest of the panel back. I have some follow up questions. I'd like to turn first to Berri Davis to have you elaborate a little bit to help the audience understand a little bit more about the nature of your work developing INTOSAI standards and professional pronouncements. And specifically, could you give us a sense of what the time commitment is? What occurs at the meetings that you attend? Who do you interact with? And how does this process of developing and revising International Auditing Standards and guidance documents, how does that really work? So please, Berri, go ahead. >> Berri Davis: Thanks, Mike. for that question. FIPP is a very busy group. Since the beginning of the calendar year, we've had 12 meetings, each of which is generally four hours in length. And we've had five meetings scheduled now between now and the end of the year. We've got five more coming up. Our meetings during the pandemic have been virtual. There have been some benefits to that. Web-based meetings have enabled many project and working group members and subcommittee members to join us in those meetings. They can see and hear firsthand our deliberations. They can ask questions of us as we review their draft pronouncements, and we can ask questions of them. This is helpful as in some cases, pronouncements are approved contingent upon the working group agreeing to making certain modifications to the pronouncement. So it's very important to have that interaction on a back and forth discussion. We do have a formal process for approving the pronouncements -- a vote is taken of each individual. Votes are recorded and reflected in the minutes. The majority of our time is spent reviewing actual project materials, but we also spend time talking about our working procedures. How do those procedures work? Are they good? Can they be enhanced? And we also talk about whether our drafting conventions, which is actually the guidance that goes out to the project groups to develop their pronouncements, whether that guidance -- or excuse me, whether those drafting conventions are sufficient or need revisions. And then lastly, I'll mention that sometimes we were asked by the PSC Steering Committee to provide input on standards-related issues. And we are always very happy to do that. So that's a very high-level summary of how the FIPP operates. >> Mike Hix: Thank you very much, Berri, for that excellent summary. And I'd like to turn next to Mark Gaffigan. And I was wondering, Mark, you know, based on your experience, what do you see is the primary benefit of engaging internationally with other SAIs that focus on some of the same audit topics as the Natural Resources Environment Team? And how has your team benefited from engaging with these INTOSAI working groups on Extractive Industries and Environmental Auditing? >> Mark Gaffigan: Thanks, Mike. Yeah, I think, you know, there's an old saying about in teaching, we learn, right? So I think we all have something to offer. And Gene at the opening talked about capacity building and the importance of that. And, you know, there are many, many countries that have never done performance auditing. And so that's kind of a new concept to them. They're kind of where maybe GAO was in its infancy when it focused more on financial audits. And so just those basics are things that, you know, we benefit from sort of revisiting why we do what we do, and understanding those concepts of condition, criteria, cause and effect, right, the real secret of performance auditing. And just sharing that with others, it benefits them and capacity building, but then also, I think, causes us to reflect on how we do our things. And then when we get into specific topics, you know, you may think that we've been doing things for a long time, and may have more experience in some areas. But in some areas, some countries have experiences that we don't have. For example, we have in our country the mining law of 1872. So it's been around a while, right? And so it's very interesting in engaging with other countries who are just establishing legal framework for mining, for example, this is work we did in extractive industries. And sort of thinking about, hey, if you were to start from scratch, right, how would those legal frameworks be put in order? So I think there's a real benefit from just sharing that mutual experience of auditing with other countries. And that's just one example in Extractive Industries where, yeah, maybe we've been doing a while, but maybe there's some new ideas out there. >> Mike Hix: Thank you very much, Mark. That's an excellent concrete example of the benefit of involvement. And I appreciate the point that you made, and I think it's an important one for our audience about performance auditing, which is something that, you know, GAO has been doing for a long time. But globally, we see a lot of interest in other SAIs enhancing their ability to conduct performance audits, because I think they recognize, as GAO has demonstrated, that you can have a great impact when your work expands beyond financial audits and compliance audits, which are also valuable. But that you can have a great impact with performance audits. And I think that your contributions to these working groups, as you mentioned, really does help our international counterparts enhance those capabilities. I'd like to next turn to Michelle. You talked a little bit about the process for developing the strategic plan and running an inclusive process, a consultative process that involves counterparts from all around the world. So we've learned a little bit about the development of the plan. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about the importance of INTOSAI's strategic plan for guiding the work of the organization. >> Michelle Sager: Certainly, thank you, Mike. And it's been a fascinating experience to be a part of. I had the good fortune of being involved in a predecessor to the current Task Force on Strategic Planning, something called the Task Force on Financial Foresight. And through the course of that work, one of the opportunities that I had was to sketch out for that task force kind of the history of strategic planning during these last 15 years in INTOSAI. And so in the course of doing that, one of the things that became clear is that INTOSAI builds on the past, evaluates the present, and plans for the future. And so that contributes to the current strategic plan. As I mentioned, it's not a static document. It's a dynamic document. And one of the ways that that has been illustrated is in the current strategic planning period. INTOSAI produced something called a performance and accountability report. That's something that some of our supreme audit institution counterparts may have a version of within their own national context. And we began doing that for INTOSAI as an organization as a way to stay in touch with the strategic plan and how implementation was proceeding. And also to make sure that we had a clear process for doing so with each of INTOSAI's entities feeding into this performance and accountability report, that then is synthesized and pulled up to a very high level for presentation to the Policy, Finance and Administration Committee, as well as to the INTOSAI Governing Board. And so that document, as well as the ongoing reporting from all of INTOSAI's entities, feeds into the strategic planning process and also serves as a way to make sure that the goals that are set out in the strategic plan have a structure for regular follow up and reporting to INTOSAI's governing entities, but also to all of INTOSAI's membership. >> Mike Hix: Thank you very much, Michelle. I now have some common questions for all panelists. And I will start with Berri. I was wondering if you could reflect a little bit on how your involvement with INTOSAI and the FIPP, how has that affected you personally and professionally? And if you've been surprised by any experiences that you've had? Or if you've had any unique experiences that left a major impression on you? Please, Berri. >> Berri Davis: Thanks, Mike. Well, I believe I've become a better auditor and professional due to my INTOSAI work. Whenever a new pronouncement is under development, there are a couple of things that I think about in my service to the FIPP. First, how do the audit processes in the INTOSAI pronouncements compare with the audit processes we have in place in my SAI? You know, are the two sets consistent? Can I learn anything from what other auditors are doing around the world that will enhance my work at home, my audit work at home? By a similar measure, I ask myself what audit knowledge and experience I have that I can share with the global audit community to help others achieve the highest possible level of professionalism. And so personally, I feel very privileged to be among a group of international auditors who are talented, dedicated, very collegial. Many of my INTOSAI colleagues serve really as role models for me. And so I hope I'm a better person, both professionally and personally due to this association. But these experiences have left an impression on me definitely. My INTOSAI colleagues and I come from many different countries, many different backgrounds, many different environments. But we are so much alike with our dedication to our profession, and really a strong desire to make sure that governments around the world work better. Thanks, Mike. >> Mike Hix: Thank you, Berri. And I'll ask you the same question, Mark. How have you been personally and professionally affected by your involvement with our international counterparts? And do you have any unique experiences that left an impression on you that you'd like to share with us today? >> Mark Gaffigan: Yeah, thanks, Mike. I think, and I knew this, that a lot of the work we do is not really just relegated to what's happening in the United States, even though we work for the United States Government Accountability Office, right? And it's created the awareness that the problems that we're facing in the US, the issues that we're trying to help the nation tackle, are issues the rest of the world is facing and require not only a whole of government approach, government at all levels, but a whole of society approach. And so in some of the interactions in this working group, I've gotten exposure to other stakeholders, both in the governmental sector and outside. And that all folks are working towards solving these issues and that were part of that. If I may tie things together, you know, at the beginning, we heard from our initial speakers about our important relationship with the United Nations. And as Michelle knows, in the INTOSAI strategic plan, one of the cross-cutting goals is for SAIs, us, to help contribute to the follow up and review of the UN's Sustainable Development Goals. And if you don't know what the sustainable development goals, in very simple terms, it's kind of the United Nations playbook for addressing and making sure that their mission of, you know, protecting people and the health and wellbeing of people is achieved. You know, things about health and education, addressing poverty, clean water, energy, environment, of course, which all is very dear to my professional life, but also my personal life. And that interaction where I can see the SAIs contributing to the follow up and review of these efforts the various countries are doing by the work that we do day to day -- right, the work that we go out and assess, how are we doing when it comes to clean water? What can we do better? Those are issues that are not just important to the US, but they're important throughout the world. And we're learning from each other. And we are contributing to the follow up and review of the sustainable development goals in that work. And I think that that's been really meaningful to me. I knew our work was meaningful in, you know, the stage of the United States, but it's meaningful worldwide. And like Berri, I've met colleagues from all over the world, and it's just very interesting to -- no matter what the culture, auditors are auditors, right? And it's kind of this common ground that you can be sitting there in a working group and the guys from Iraq and the guys from Iran are in the same group, and we're working together. So those kinds of experiences kind of give you hope. And I think it's a very hopeful engagement in working with our colleagues around the world and trying to help address these problems that affect us all. Thank you. >> Mike Hix: Well, thank you, Mark. And I agree with you, the international engagement always seems very, very positive and constructive and helpful, because we're all working together in a voluntary organization trying to help each other do our jobs. I'd like to shift to Michelle and also get your perspective on how you've been affected personally and professionally through your involvement with INTOSAI and if there's any unique experiences that you would like to share with the group. >> Michelle Sager: Well, thank you, Mike. And I definitely second everything that we just heard from Berri and from Mark. It's a really extraordinary experience. And I think personally, one of the wonderful side benefits is just the opportunity to get to know colleagues from all around the world. And then in getting to know those kind of like-minded colleagues all oriented on efficiency, effectiveness, accountability, transparency, and openness. They are also, as Mark said, auditors by training. And we use the phrase professional skepticism at GAO. And I use that in a good way, meaning that in the course of conducting work with all of these counterparts from around the world, they challenge me and have challenged me to think about how we do what we do, why we do it the way we do it, and also to think about our own national context. So for example, at GAO, as anyone from GAO knows, every year we have to take something called an independence refresher. And it's been really interesting to talk to colleagues from around the globe and have them ask very important probing questions about how we remain independent while being part of Congress yet working for Congress as our client. And to put that lens on conducting my own work and thinking about remaining independent and how important that is in our context. But also contrasting it with that of my colleagues from around the globe, who sometimes have very different audit authorities in how they do their work. And so I think it definitely has provided a better understanding for me of my own context and doing the work that we do for GAO by being able to contrast it with others. And then more broadly speaking, Mark made reference to the sustainable development goals. And certainly, I've learned a lot about that and learned about how people from around the world doing very similar work are equally committed to the importance of those goals, and how our governance challenges in many respects are very specific to our own national context. But they're also global challenges. And there is very much a commitment to the INTOSAI motto of mutual experience benefiting all. And I've certainly found in my work with INTOSAI that in the course of working with colleagues from very different countries with very different cultures and political context, that there is that shared commitment to those higher-level values and to literally making the world a better place. >> Mike Hix: Thank you very much, Michelle. And I agree based on my experience with all the points that you're making. Now, I want to pick up on sort of the last theme that Michelle had raised there and go to you, Berri. What have you learned and in your experience with INTOSAI about how GAO is viewed internationally and the role that that we play and, yeah, how people view us and the work that we do for the Congress? >> Berri Davis: Yeah. Thanks, Mike for that question. For the most part, I believe that my colleagues in the international audit community respect GAO, I'll just say that very much up front. For example, GAO has had its own set of auditing standards for many years. People sometimes look to us as having knowledge and experiences which they may not have had, due to the development stage of their governments or even their auditing functions. Of course, anytime someone looks to you for advice and counsel, there's really an essential and I'll even say maybe a critical requirement to provide sound and really good, meaningful advice. But I want to point out, Mike, that while GAO is respected for being a seasoned audit agency, within FIPP every country is respected in the INTOSAI environment. For my experience in FIPP meetings, my comments are important. But they are not more important than the person sitting next to me. I don't get special privilege for my thoughts at that meeting, nor would I even want this. I think we are truly equal contributors. And that is what makes the INTOSAI experience so rewarding. Thanks. >> Mike Hix: Thank you, Berri. And Mark, your thoughts on the same question. What have you learned about how we're perceived and viewed internationally? >> Mark Gaffigan: It's interesting, Mike, you know, yesterday, we lost a great American in Colin Powell. And I was listening, because this is what GAO people do -- at least I do -- listen to C-SPAN, right. And he was being interviewed about the US and was it still great? Or was it still good? How is it perceived? And I would answer that the same way, that we still have a great respect. And we're doing a lot of great things. That doesn't mean we have all the answers. And that's what's really important about what Berri said, that we have to be also listening because there's many other perspectives to draw upon. But we are well respected in that group. And folks who work at GAO should be very proud of that. You know, I think we are well respected in this country in terms of what we bring. And I think worldwide, we're well respected for what we do. And it's just nice to be able to contribute that too in this context of INTOSAI. So I'm very proud to represent the US. It's the you know, only meeting you go to where there's a United States flag next to you when you're sitting at the table, and you're representing your country. And I'm very proud to represent my country. I'm very proud of my country. And I'm also proud of how we, I think, in these interactions are open to listen to others, you know, not dominating the room. It's very important to be listening and getting those other perspectives, because that's what diversity is all about. Right? And that makes us stronger as a group, makes us stronger as a country, and stronger in these meetings with INTOSAI. So thank you for the question. >> Mike Hix: Well, thank you very much, Mark. And I can relate to that point that you're making. I remember, actually, when I was in the Natural Resource and Environment team working on the Environmental Auditing Working Group in 2007 or 2008, I was going to represent us at a meeting in South Africa. And I spoke to Steve Elstein who would lead a lot of the work in the Natural Resources and Environment Team in that working group. And he said, "When you go to this meeting, don't act like you know everything. And listen." And I took his advice, and it's really served me well. And it's probably the most valuable thing that I've learned in these interactions, is that you get you get as much out of listening as you do out of talking. So Michelle, I'd like to turn to you with the same question. What are your impressions of how we're viewed internationally? >> Michelle Sager: Well, thank you, Mike, for that question. And again, Berri and Mark both raised great points that I absolutely agree with. And certainly, GAO is very well respected because of our involvement in many aspects of INTOSAI. But nonetheless, one of the things that I found very humbling about being involved in INTOSAI is just the incredible skill, the articulate pronouncements from our colleagues around the world, often in multiple languages, and their willingness to listen to each other. There's a phrase that we've used many times in INTOSAI in recent years, which is the idea of leaving no SAI behind, and that is sincere. And there is incredible dedication to making sure that we are listening to each other, respecting each other and even though on specific issues, sometimes there may be vehement disagreements about the way that a particular document should be written or a priority should be articulated for INTOSAI, nonetheless, that is always communicated with great diplomacy and very much respecting each other, regardless of where someone is coming from or whatever the relationships, the bilateral relationships between any two countries might be at any given time. So GAO is very much respected. But one of the wonderful things about INTOSAI is that it truly is an organization where everyone is on a level playing field, and there is an interest in lifting every SAI up to help them in their own national context. >> Mike Hix: Well, that's an excellent segue to the next panel. We have a real talk about capacity development and leaving no SAI behind, it'll be great to have our colleagues Ed from the World Bank, and Einar, along with Janet from the Center for Audit Excellence talk about GAO's role in international capacity development efforts. And also Einar, who's on the next panel, is also a member of the FIPP. So perhaps he'll have an opportunity to share his impressions of working on the FIPP as well. And likewise, Einar and Ed have been very involved in the sustainable development goals and the development of the INTOSAI strategic plan. So we look forward to that panel. I think we have time for one more quick question before I hand this back to Steve to leave the next panel. And, you know, Dr. Kraker mentioned that INTOSAI has shifted seamlessly to a virtual environment for the last year and a half. And I was just wondering if in like a minute or less each of you could talk a little bit about how your work has been affected by the pandemic, and get your take on the pros and cons of engaging virtually with the international community. So please, I'll turn to you, Berri, and then Mark, and then Michelle, and then we'll hand it back to Steve. >> Berri Davis: Thanks, Mike. I mentioned to you earlier what I think are the many benefits of web-based meetings, in particular, the opportunity for project group members and representatives of the goal chairs to actually attend the FIPP meetings virtually. But I'm going to say up front, there are some things I miss from in-person meetings. If we had an issue in FIPP, if we were trying to figure something out, maybe everybody wasn't on the same page, we had opportunities during those in-person meetings to get a few people together, say for coffee or during lunch, and try to come up with a solution that can be brought back to the entire group to consider. And unfortunately, you know, we don't have those opportunities right now. And I'll just say I do miss too the rich cultural experiences of visiting other countries and getting to know more about my colleagues and their cultures through dinner meetings or excursions that we had. I'm going to say that once the pandemic is over, I think the best thing would be to have a hybrid of in-person and web-based meetings. I think both have a useful purpose, and combining the two types of meetings might be the best way forward in accomplishing our goals. >> Mike Hix: Yes, I know I agree with you, Berri. And I know that you've been to all corners of the world and, including Einar's hometown of Tomsen, Norway. And then also, I've heard about your experiences landing at airports in the Himalayas. So that's a conversation for another day. Very briefly, I'll go to Mark with the same question on the pros and cons of the virtual engagement during the pandemic. >> Mark Gaffigan: Yeah, with technology, Mike, more people are able to attend, because usually you're traveling to different places in the world and not everybody's able to be there. So folks are able to be there. But instead of having jetlag from the travel, we have jetlag from the time zone differences. So we are meeting pretty much all around the world. So you have folks in New Zealand, where it's the next day, and in California, it's the day before, you know, almost 20 hours before them. So you can imagine those kinds of different time zones. So we become used to saying good morning, good night, good afternoon, good day, wherever you are. And just like in our telework environment here in the US, we miss those connections. And it's important to have those connections. And so while many of the folks we've met and have established connections, some of the folks we've never met in person. And so I look forward to the time that we are able to meet in person and start reestablishing connections, because there is always a changeover of staff, not unlike what we're facing here at GAO internally as new people are on boarded and some of them haven't even met in person or been into a GAO building. So there's some stuff that we missed there. So yeah, the future looking forward is, I think, some kind of hybrid where we're able to do those connections, but also we've gotten better at the technology. So thanks. >> Mike Hix: I agree with you completely, Mark. And Michelle, I'll give you the final word on this before we hand it back to the second panel. >> Michelle Sager: Well, I'll start by saying certainly I too miss those travel experiences, both the rich cultural experiences, but also getting to know people one-on-one, face-to-face. There's nothing comparable to say having a conversation with someone from the Cook Islands, for example, about what the future might look like with regard to climate change. And it becomes very real when you see that person talking to you about their livelihood for their family and their workplace. That makes it a completely different experience. Nonetheless, on the positive side, the current virtual environment has kind of forced us to become more efficient and effective and deliberate in how we communicate. So for example, on the Task Force on Strategic Planning, we make sure to have those quarterly meetings, and at each meeting we painstakingly go through a round robin discussion to make sure that we have an opportunity for everyone to participate in the conversation. And it also means that we're able to be more inclusive as certain SAIs, for whatever reason, who may not be able to participate in a meeting in person have a higher likelihood of being able to participate in a 90-minute virtual meeting. So there are definitely positives and negatives. But I think it has also accelerated where INTOSAI is headed in the future so that we will be more deliberate, more inclusive and more open to working with technology going forward. >> Mike Hix: Thank you very much, Michelle. And in closing, I want to thank all of you for all of your contributions to the INTOSAI community, for participating in today's panel and sharing your experiences. You're all incredibly busy people leading large bodies of work at GAO, and I know the international work is an important part of your work, but it's also one of many things that you're doing. So I want to thank you all for spending time with us today. I could talk to you all day. But hopefully, we'll have another opportunity to do this. It's great to see all of you, and all the best to you and your families. So with that, I will kick it back to Steve to lead the second panel. >> Stephen Sanford: Thank you very much, Mike. And thank you to all of the panelists who have joined us in that first session. I particularly wanted to acknowledge, you know, the extraordinary commitment that Berri and Michelle and Mark have sustained and shown toward INTOSAI and the international community through their engagement. And you know, we're very grateful for it. The other thing I wanted to briefly acknowledge as well is that first panel was focused on GAO's contributions to INTOSAI, none of which would have been possible without the efforts of GAO's ownInternational Relations team, under the leadership of Mike Hix and contributions from his incredible team: Kristie Conserve, Brenda Fernandez, Mark Keen and Paul Miller, as well as contributions to the INTOSAI Journal efforts in the past year from Laurel Voloder and sustained contributions from Heather Santos. The breadth, depth and richness of GAO's engagement with the international community and in particular within INOTSAI would not be possible without the work of that entire team. So I wanted to thank them all for that as well. Now, as we look ahead to the next panel, very happy to be joined by three very distinguished guests who themselves are pillars in the international capacity development community when it comes to SAIs. We are joined today by Einar Gorrissen, the director general of IDI, the INTOSAI Development Initiative. We're joined by Ed Olowo Okere, the director of the Global Governance Practice at the World Bank. And by GAO's own Janet St. Laurent, who is the director of GAO's Center for Audit Excellence. And each of these three are really very important leaders who play essential roles in organizations that are supporting institutional and professional capacity development for the entire global auditing community. So I can't stress enough the importance of the role, both of these individuals, but also their organizations and their teams play in sustaining capacity building across the global accountability community. So we'll have a similar format in this panel. We'll hear remarks from each of our three panelists individually. So we'll start with Janet. Then we'll have remarks from Ed and then finally remarks from Einar. And then I'll engage the panel in a full panel session with some Q&A as we've had just seen. So with that, I'll start and introduce Janet St. Laurent who is, as I mentioned, the director for GAO's Center for Audit Excellence. The Center was established in 2015 as a way for GAO to enhance its ability to deliver capacity building both in the US domestically, but also across the world. So I'll hand it over to Janet for her intro remarks. >> Janet St. Laurent: Thank you very much, Steve. The Center for Audit Excellence just completed its sixth year of operations. The creation of the Center was proposed by Comptroller General Dodaro so that GAO would have an additional tool to support capacity building in addition to other GAO programs, such as the International Auditor Fellowship program that has been running for decades. Based on the Comptroller General's legislative proposal, the US Congress passed legislation that authorized GAO to establish the Center, and we opened as Steve mentioned in October of 2015. Our overall mission is to provide training, technical assistance and other services to help build the capacity of both domestic and international audit organizations and accountability organizations. The center is staffed entirely by recently retired senior-level GAO auditors who have many, many years of experience in leading and conducting financial, compliance and performance audits, and playing key roles in GAO and developing our policies and procedures. This model enables us to tap into a unique talent pool of individuals who enjoy sharing their knowledge of auditing that they've gained over many years and who enjoy coaching. It also enables GAO to remain focused with its current employees on conducting audits on behalf of Congress. So we found that the model is working quite well. And we're able to tap into this community of GAO retirees that is still willing to share their knowledge. About half of the center's work is with audit organizations in the United States. We work a lot with federal inspector general offices and many major US federal agencies, as well as some state and local governments. And in that area, we provide a wide array of one- to two-day training courses that benefit these organizations. However, our international work typically involves longer duration projects, and we usually work with SAIs, although we can also work with internal audit organizations. Many of the international projects last for two to four years and focus on several different types of capacity building activities that are designed to reinforce each other. We also conduct our international work in conjunction with partner organizations that support us and collaborate with us. For example, we have memoranda of understandings with both the World Bank and the US Agency for International Development. We also work with the US State Department and sometimes we work directly with SAIs that come to us. Our international projects often include a combination of training, mentoring, and policy advice or technical assistance activities. For example, we may offer a training course on a topic and then mentor auditors from an SAI in carrying out an audit in a way that applies some of the concepts taught during training. In many cases, we also may begin a project with a needs assessment phase. This is very important because it enables us to learn much more about an SAI's context, their legal framework, and then examine a range of issues to assess the SAI's maturity level in several areas and where they may need to enhance their capacity. So we usually make a number of recommendations in these needs assessment reports. They are also anchored in the INTOSAI standards. And then we develop follow-on capacity building activities based on the priorities of the SAI that we're working with. One of our earliest and longest-running projects sponsored by US Agency for International Development is to assist the Philippines Commission on Audit to improve their capacity to conduct performance audits. So during this project, we provided numerous types of training courses to COA auditors on performance audit fundamentals, data reliability, sampling, leading performance audits, data analytics, and other topics. We also mentored COA staff then in conducting several performance audits. And as part of the mentoring process, we helped them develop their researchable objectives, decide on what methodologies will be most appropriate, provide them with advice as they conduct their analysis, and then of course, helping them as they start to determine their key findings and draft their report. So this past year, COA published a very important report identifying opportunities for Philippine Healthcare Agency to improve its review of reimbursement rates for various types of medical procedures. So this is just an example of how we combine the training and then follow up with mentoring. We're also working on a project to assist Armenia's Audit Chamber to improve its financial audits and develop institutional policies in a number of areas such as ethics, quality control, et cetera. And a key element of this project's success to date has been the strong commitment of the Audit Chamber's leadership in developing and staying focused on meeting milestones included in its annual activities plan. So since our inception, we've worked with over a dozen countries in most key regions of the world. We currently have eight ongoing projects, most of which are multiyear in nature. And so that is an overview of some of the types of activities that we do. And let me stop here. I look forward to participating in the Q&A session to follow. >> Stephen Sanford: Thank you, Janet. Thanks for that great introduction to the activities of the Center for Audit Excellence at GAO. And we turn next to add Ed Olowo Okere, who, as I mentioned as director of the Global Practice -- sorry, the Governance Global Practice at the World Bank. Ed has a multi-decade career with expertise in his group on governance issues, such as public financial management, domestic resource mobilization, anticorruption policies, and political economy analysis. So we are very happy to have you here today, Ed, with us to mark an important milestone year for GAO, and also to reflect on the wider contributions that our partnership is making to the audit accountability community around the world. So Ed, please. >> Ed Olowo Okere: Thanks, Steve, for the kind introduction. It's really a great pleasure to participate in today's GAO webinar, along with Gene, GAO colleagues and other distinguished guests. Let me start by also saying many congratulations to Gene and the GAO for completing a century, wow, of excellent and groundbreaking work, and also great contributions to international development. I think I'll begin by saying a few words about the World Bank, where I work as global director for the Governance Global Practice. When people ask me in the US, where do I work, and I say the World Bank, they often ask me to say more about the organization. I sometimes was able to keep the conversation brief. If the person asking me about the World Bank also poses an additional question, is the World Bank a federal government agency? If that question is asked, I will quickly respond and say yes, and my answer is partially correct, considering that the US is the largest shareholder of the World Bank. The World Bank as an organization comprises five institutions. The first one is the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development. That is the IBRD or the World Bank. The second organization in the group is the International Development Association, which is called IDA and it provides financial support to the poorest countries in the world. Then we have the International Finance Corporation, or IFC, which is the hand of the World Bank that provides support to the private sector. Then we have two additional organizations, the Multilateral Investment Guarantee Agency, and the International Center for Settlement of Investment Disputes. The World Bank has two goals. The first one is to end extreme poverty in the world. That is by reducing the share of the global population that lives in extreme poverty to 3% by the year 2030. The second goal is to promote shared prosperity in a sustainable way, by increasing the incomes of the poorest 40% of people in every country. The World Bank has about 189 member countries. And we also have staff from more than 170 countries around the globe. And our offices can be found in at least 130 countries. So when you put all of that together, the World Bank is really a unique global organization. We work in every major area of development. We provide a wide array of financial products and technical assistance, and we as countries share and apply innovative global knowledge and solutions to these challenges that they face. Since 1947, when the World Bank was established after the Second World War, the World Bank has funded over 12,000 development projects through traditional loans, interest free credits, as well as bonds. Now coming to the Governance Global Practice that I lead, the practice is part of a broader practice group at the World Bank that is called Equitable Growth, Finance and Institutions. The Governance Global Practice brings together professionals in procurement, financial management, taxation, public management, regulatory policy, transparency and accountability, digital governance, law and development, anticorruption and social accountability, to develop innovative and integrated solutions to daunting development challenges. We also ensure that all funds on all World Bank assisted projects are used for the purpose intended with due attention to economy and efficiency. Now, let me turn to the relationship between the GAO and the World Bank. The GAO and the World Bank are both in the leadership team of INTOSAI Donor Cooperation. The INTOSAI Donor cooperation is a strategic global partnership between INTOSAI and 23 development partners, and it was created in the year 2009. In this regard, the Comptroller General and I work together closely in enhancing the capacity of supreme audit institutions worldwide. Still, on supreme audit institutions capacity strengthening, the World Bank signed an MOU with the Center for Audit Excellence that GAO has kindly established and Janet spoke about just now. This MOU was signed about three years ago with the purpose of working with GAO to support developing countries around the world to strengthen their capacity. I must add that the Center for Audit Excellence's work nicely complements the very successful GAO Fellowship programs, which many past and existing auditors general in developing countries benefited from at a stage in their careers. I've worked in many countries across the globe, and when I meet with an auditor general, one of the things that will often come up is that, "Oh, I participated in GAO's Fellowship program," and this is something that the GAO should really be commended for. In support of the work that we are doing in the INTOSAI Donor Cooperation, we are also focusing on the independence of supreme audit institutions. And the whole idea is to really enhance independence of supreme audit institutions across the globe. In support of this, the World Bank recently launched the Supreme Audit Institutions Independence Index in April 2021. I must say that this work was really triggered by visits by Gene Dodaro, the US Comptroller General, and the leadership of INTOSAI to the World Bank in early 2019, where they spoke with the senior management of the World Bank on the need to support the independence of supreme audit institutions. So in summary, the GAO and the World Bank Group are partnering to strengthen accountability for public resources globally. Thank you. Back to you, Steve. >> Stephen Sanford: Thank you, Ed. Thank you very much. And thank you for acknowledging all the important points of partnership we have between our organizations. I'll hand the floor over next to Einar Gorrissen who is the Director General of IDI, the INTOSAI Development Initiative, where he's held that role since 2016. As an INTOSAI body, IDI plays a pivotal role in assuring that developing countries and countries in need are able to enhance their performance and increase their capacity for doing audit work. And it's a way to bring INTOSAI resources to bear, as well as other resources across the globe, and have an impact as well. So I'll turn it over to Einar for his introductory remarks. The floor is yours, Einar. >> Einar Gorrissen: Thank you very much for the introduction, Steve. And let me begin by congratulating the GAO on their 100-year anniversary. It's an important occasion to celebrate for a remarkable organization. The GAO, of course, plays a key role domestically in terms of enhancing service delivery and performance, ensuring transparency and saving money. But the GAO also substantially contributes internationally in terms of strengthening INTOSAI as an organization and SAIs around the world. At the IDI, we work closely with the GAO in their efforts to support all SAIs in developing countries in their quest to enhance their performance and capacities. The IDI annually supports in excess of 120 SAIs in four work streams, namely independent, relevant, professional and well governed SAIs. In addition, we support the Donor Cooperation and provide bilateral support to SAIs operating in particularly challenging contexts. Our support is anchored in a few key principles which underpin all we do. First, our delivery models based on peer-to -peer cooperation. This allows us to support a large number of SAIs at low financial costs. But even more importantly, we know that SAIs have a preference for receiving support and learning from their peer SAIs. We also focus very much on sustainable capacity development. Our support is long-term, predictable and facilitative. The SAIs lead on implementation. Third, we are a needs-based organization. All support is based on the needs expressed by SAIs, and we assign our support to meet these needs. And finally, as was mentioned earlier, we work on the principle of leaving no SAI behind. All developing country SAIs are eligible for IDI support, regardless of the challenges in their respective countries, be it in terms of security, regime or level of democracy. Our portfolio has evolved considerably in recent times. We have an increased emphasis on helping SAIs obtain and sustain appropriate SAI independence. This is a major challenge for many SAIs, but at the same time, being a prerequisite for credible and high quality external oversights. Our efforts on independence include global and regional advocacy, and also country-level support for SAI independence's common threats. COVID-19 also brought both challenges and opportunities for SAIs, as well as emerging needs. I'm very pleased by how agile we were in shifting all the support to virtual means, and how we redesigned our portfolio to accommodate for increased demand in areas such as SAIs' ICT governance in embracing technology and develop crisis management systems, as well as support and auditing the resilience of health systems, emergency financing, and public procurement during the crisis, just to mention a few. The GAO has been a key partner in many of these efforts. Let me meet briefly mention to you that I have over the years concluded that the biggest performance driver in SAI is the quality and foresight of its leadership. SAIs that work under almost unimaginable conditions and still have a positive impact under the right leadership. At the IDI, we decided to launch a Young SAI Leadership Initiative, where 25 of the best SAI leadership talents globally are selected competitively and go through a yearlong leadership journey. This has been a great success and would not have been possible without the support of the GAO and others in the audience, such as SAI of South Africa, General Secretariat, and the World Bank. GAO staff are involved in designing this initiative, selecting participants, hosting one of the global summits --the Comptroller General shared his experience and reflections -- as well as being a member of the jury that decides the SAI Young Leaders Awards. And also the GAO fellowship program was indeed an inspiration for this setup. The second example is establishment and successful implementation of the INTOSAI Donor Cooperation that brings together more than 20 donors into the community with a common goal to scale up support for SAIs based on their strategic plans. The Comptroller General has served as INTOSAI vice chair of the corporation since its inception, and has been instrumental in securing its success. The corporation has contributed to significant scaling up of donor support to SAI capacity developments, new donors supporting SAIs, global advocacy on SAI independence, and a heightened understanding in the donor community of the important role of SAIs in building democracies and more prosperous countries. The last example relates to the bread and butter of SAIs, namely high quality audits. We have considerable support from the GAO, in particular related to supporting SAIs and conducting performance audits in compliance with the SAIs. GAO staff have helped write the Performance Audit Implementation Handbook, and in developing the Professional Education of SAI Auditors Initiative, where 800 auditors have been involved and the ambition is to create a critical mass of professional SAI auditors contributing to professional SAIs. And I also need to mention Chris Min who I think is in the audience today, who has supported us greatly in our work on SDGs. Without your support, that would not have been possible. These are just a sample of the many areas of cooperation. And I would like to thank Mr. Dodaro and all the GAO staff that have contributed to the work of the IDI over the years. Our success is your success, and we are grateful for the close and good collaboration based on mutual trust and shared visions. Many thanks for the attention. >> Stephen Sanford: Thank you, Einar. And I would invite all of our panelists for this session now to turn on their cameras and join us for our discussion period. You know, I'm struck by not only the extent of cooperation that happens among our organizations, but also the reach we all have in terms of the number of organizations. Ed mentioned the number of organizations involved with the World Bank, and INTOSAI has more than 190 members across the world. And so the reach of this group to build capacity is truly global. And I think there's a lot to be proud of with that amount of reach. In that vein, I wanted to start with Janet and ask if you could describe some of the key impact that the Center for Audit Excellence has had around the world. And what in the time that the CAE has been operating are some of the accomplishments you are particularly proud of and feel are notable? >> Janet St. Laurent: Thank you, Steve. Yes, I think one of our main impacts is assisting SAIs to further develop their capacity to conduct performance audits. As many people know, GAO is well known for our performance audit work. The vast majority of the work that we do is on performance audits. But many SAIs that we've worked with have a challenge in that they have very high demands to also do financial auditing. And many of them not only do financial audits at the national level, but also at the local level or provincial level. And so they have very, very high demands on the financial audit side. And they are many times just trying to figure out and determine how they can begin to really establish an important performance audit capability that will begin to look at program efficiency and effectiveness. So that usually has two components to it. We've worked with organizations to help figure out how to do some of their financial audits in more of a risk-based approach, and even go back at times to their legislatures to, you know, think through, do you really have to do hundreds of these every year? Or can they be done on a more rotating schedule? And then that may provide some additional room to invest in performance audit. So for example, in the Philippines, we have been working with them, they are increasing both the quality of the financial audits that they are doing, they're training more people in performance auditing, and they're producing some very good results with the type of topics that they're taking on, very significant topics. So that's one major contribution. We're also helping a number of SAIs to strengthen how they document their accomplishments, because as we all know, it's not only important just to do the work and get the reports and the results out there, but to then have SAIs take the additional step of documenting not only the number of recommendations being implemented, but the impact. So we worked with the SAI in Latvia to refine and improve their processes for how they were going to measure the impact of some of the audits that are leading to results that can be documented and projected. And financial terms are another quantitative term. So as a result of our engagement with them, they made some improvements to their policies to help them do that better. And then I think a third area is communications and outreach. GAO has a very robust set of tools and processes to engage not only with our legislature, but also with our public and with our media. And we have been sharing some of our approaches. Not everything GAO does will be applicable to other SAIs. But we've been providing, sharing information on our outreach practices, our use of social media. And I think this is so important for SAIs to think through and advance their own processes, because we're dealing with a very busy world where readers are no longer able to read through very long audit reports in most cases. So all SAIs really need to find ways to deliver their message through new mediums such as social media, and more concisely in ways that the public, legislators and others can comprehend the key messages more quickly. So that's another area that I think we've been working in. And we've had some accomplishments working with SAIs. >> Stephen Sanford: Thank you, Janet. Thank you very much. Ed, I'd like to turn to you now and explore a little more deeply some of the things you raised regarding the INTOSAI Donor Cooperation. You mentioned that there are many other donor organizations that have signed on to the cooperation. And we're wondering if you could talk a little bit about what the benefits of the engagement with the wider donor community have been, and just more generally, how the cooperation is working and where you see it going in the future. >> Ed Olowo Okere: Hey, thanks, Steve. So I think I would like to begin by repeating that the cooperation comprises of 23 development partners, that is donors who have signed up. And then we also have as members of that cooperation INTOSAI. So INTOSAI is represented by some of the supreme audit institutions, that is specifically the GAO, also the Audit Bureau of Saudi Arabia, and you also have the CBC, the Capacity Building Committee hub of INTOSAI also represented on the on the Steering Committee. Now, the focus of the INTOSAI Donor Cooperation has been to enhance the capacity of supreme audit institutions in developing countries. And the way we have organized is to really focus on four core principles. The first one is coordination, really improve coordination among all the development partners. Also with INTOSAI, including IDI, to be able to support supreme audit institutions. The second principle is harmonization, really harmonizing our supports around the strategic plan of the supreme audit institution of a country that we are supporting. Then the third principle is empowering supreme audit institutions to lead their own development. So that context, they develop their strategy and they determine areas where they need support on, and the development partners support them based on that, and they lead the program themselves. Then the fourth and also very important is scaling up the support for supreme audit institutions' capacity development, essentially by providing additional resources, funding and also technical assistance. Now, let me turn to the aspect of how the cooperation has been working. We have a main body of the Donor Cooperation, which is called a steering committee. And it comprises all the donor signatories to the MOU, the 23 donor partners, as well as the supreme audit institutions that were appointed by INTOSAI to be part of the INTOSAI Donor Cooperation. Now the committee normally provides strategic guidance in the implementation of the MOU. The committee also coordinates and monitors the progress of the various activities that are being implemented by the cooperation. Now, currently, the committee is jointly led -- I mean, the steering committee of the Donor Cooperation is jointly led by the Supreme Audit Institution of Saudi Arabia, the GAO, the World Bank, and the Swiss State Secretariat for Economic Affairs. I think Gene alluded to that in his opening remarks. I also would like to mention that the cooperation is supported by the Global Foundational Unit of the INTOSAI Development Initiative, which is located in Oslo, Norway, and under the leadership of Einar who is on this panel. Now, the steering committee itself meets on an annual basis. But I must say that we do have the Leadership Committee of the steering committee that do meet more regularly, to be precise on a quarterly basis. Now, since 2009, the cooperation has been delivering the results ty the four principles that I highlighted earlier on. The focus has been really on strengthening the capacity of supreme audit institutions. And we have been able to kind of stratify the supreme audit institutions, identifying the supreme audit institution that needs the most support from donors. Like we identified about the level also of debt mostly from African countries, I mean, supreme audit institutions that are probably the weakest across the globe. And then we also have other groups of supreme audit institutions that we have been supporting. Now going forward, that is really the last part of your question, in terms of what I see regarding the cooperation going forward. I see us kind of focusing on achieving the four goals that were defined in the INTOSAI Donor Cooperation strategy for 2020 to 2030. We have a strategy, okay. And that strategy lays out clearly what we hope to achieve. And so that's what the focus will be. One is independent, professional, capable, transparent, and well governed supreme audit institutions. That's the first goal of our strategy. So we've been doing a lot of work to ensure that. Then the second one is enhanced partnerships, and scaled up support to supreme audit institutions. So that will be another area we'll be focusing on going forward. Then we also have a third area, which is SAI-led capacity development. This is in line with the principles that I highlighted earlier on, with the SAIs being in the driver's seat, determining what it is that they need for them to improve, and then donors supporting that. Then the fourth and also very important is what we call the agenda 2030 and the achievement of the Sustainable Development Goals. I mean, there has been this effort to identify how supreme audit institutions can be able to support the achievement of the Sustainable Development Goals. So we're also focusing on things that are needed to support supreme audit institutions to be able to achieve those goals. So that's the way we see it going forward. Thank you, Steve. Back to you. >> Stephen Sanford: Very good. Thank you, Ed. Thank you. I appreciate that perspective on where you've been and where you're headed. I'd like to now ask Einar to talk a little bit about, you know, as you look back over your tenure at IDI and you see, you know, where the greatest impact has been, what types of interventions from IDI have really been most meaningful with recipients? Can you talk about some of the examples of the impact that you've seen through your time there? >> Einar Gorrissen: Yeah, sure, Steve. I think it's not so much about the nature of intervention, but rather how the intervention is actually delivered. We see that we are much more likely to have success if there's real SAI ownership to it, the top management of the SAI is really onboard, it's aligned to the SAI strategic plan, that there's a sort of relationship built on trust and mutual confidence. And that is delivered by peers, as I mentioned. In terms of examples, and I'll be very brief, I'll just take a few. It was mentioned in opening remarks from Dr. Kraker about this theorem mechanism, where we come in and actually support the SAIs directly, when SAI independence is a threat. We've had notable success I think in at least two countries, Cyprus, which is not a developing country, and Chad. But also partial success in Somalia and other places. We also see strategic planning becoming a very sustainable process that is basically all SAIs. We started it off running numerous courses on SAI strategic planning, and obviously more than 90% of SAIs actually do strategic plans on a regular basis. I will also mention for the sustainable introduction of public debt audits, which has been something that our interventions has led to, and of course, a big focus on SDGs in the SAI community, that the SAIs are really having an appetite for SDGs. So those are just some examples. Very diverse. >> Stephen Sanford: Thank you, Einar. And if I could stay with you for just a moment too, to ask -- I know IDI just released a global stocktaking report. Can you talk a little bit about that? Why this effort is so important, and how you see this shaping the future? >> Einar Gorrissen: Yeah, I mean, the whole idea of the report actually came up in the INTOSAI Donor Cooperation, because we recognized that there was very little research and data on SAI performance and needs. So we started this process in 2010 and we've done it every few years since. And it's met with a lot of interest both from development partners and SAIs. This edition, I think, came up against some very interesting findings, and this is pre-COVID. One of them was the lack of resourcing for SAIs in terms of financing and human resources. Independence continuing to deteriorate. Particularly, we saw a sharp increase in the number of SAIs that claimed that they do not have proper access to documents and information. We see that there is progress in a number of other areas such as SAI implementation, but also that SAIs have a long way to go in terms of their own governance arrangements, in terms of actually having performance reports, being audited and published by the auditor. So we have a lot to work with in the years to come. >> Stephen Sanford: Thank you, Einar. Thank you. If I could turn back to Janet, you know, Einar just mentioned some of the issues that he was seeing, you know, in the stocktaking even pre-COVID. But, you know, we now have almost two years of a global pandemic behind us. And you know, how have you seen SAI needs changing during the course of the pandemic, even as we're evolving through the pandemic? And also how has the center adapted? How is delivery of support changing in this world that we're in now? >> Janet St. Laurent: Thank you, Steve. That's been a very, very important topic for us to think through and work with SAIs. From the center's perspective, we had to quickly adapt as the pandemic began to unfold. We were used to doing virtual meetings with some of the organizations that we've been working with. But in terms of providing training prior to the pandemic, we were doing it all in person for the most part. We would go out to countries and conduct training classes. And while that was wonderful to be able to establish relationships and have that face-to-face contact, we quickly had to establish capability to deliver training virtually, and so we did that. We took our content, we adapted it so that it would be appropriate for conducting in a virtual environment. We also had to put in place a web producer and other tools. So we also of course went to the work around the clock approach, where we begin certain meetings at 9:00 PM at night or 10:00 PM at night, and that is just the nature of the beast when you're also working on a global basis. So we've all adapted to that. In terms of the SAIs, I think there were a number of challenges. Many did not have the IT infrastructure support in place, so they had to quickly try to obtain some additional capacity and tools in that area. I know INTOSAI has had a program and many initiatives that have helped SAIs make improvements that were needed. And in a number of countries, though, another challenge was that record keeping in many places was still manual. And therefore it was difficult to continue audits because of the challenges of getting the agencies in their countries to not only respond and conduct meetings and interviews, but also provide documentation. So many SAIs had to rethink some of their strategies and methodologies and approaches for conducting audits. So we've worked with a number of countries, for example, who are doing performance audits to see, are there large databases that you may be able to get and analyze, as opposed to making numerous site visits, which cannot happen during a pandemic? So there were a few successes there, where we're able to work through some different approaches. Also, if you were going to make site visits, are there ways of doing surveys and reaching people that way? So I think at the beginning of the pandemic, many SAIs had to stop their audits for a period of time until they had additional IT tools in place. But then they had to go through this process of rethinking, what work can we continue, and how can we continue it? So also, many SAIs were not used to doing telework as part of their mechanism for even working internally. So we provided a number of training courses and consultations on how GAO has adapted and used telework. We were, of course, doing telework prior to the pandemic. And that gave us a very heavy advantage when it came to adapting. So we've shared our experiences, we've provided guidance, and a few of the SAIs we're working with are now thinking what kind of telework capacity they want to have following this pandemic -- emergency use only, or do they want to be doing it on a more ongoing basis? So those are just a few of the ways we've adapted and some of the challenges that SAIs have faced and how they've responded. >> Stephen Sanford: Thank you, Janet. Thank you. It reminds me of what Michelle was saying earlier in the first panel about how we're going to be evolving into, you know, a hybrid world in the future and how we're all responding to that. So we'll finish the panel out today, have the last word from Ed. And Ed, I wanted to pick up on a thread briefly in the few minutes we have left that Einar mentioned when he talked about the stocktaking report indicating concerns about SAI dependence and the deterioration of SAI independence. Can you talk a little bit about, you know, the work the bank's doing on SAI independence, why this is such an important issue for the bank, and possible steps that need to be considered? >> Ed Olowo Okere: Thanks, Steve. I think no time is the independence of supreme audit institutional more important than currently, when trillions of dollars are being spent globally to tackle the challenges occasioned by COVID-19. And the world is even embarking on a very ambitious building back better program. So the point I'm making is proper accountability for public resources has always been important, but it has even assumed a greater dimension of importance. And when we then look at the public financial management process, the role of supreme audit institutions is very critical. But to play their role, independence of SAI is really everything. With adequate independence, a SAI can function effectively. And so that is why for instance, we have really been doing a lot of work in that area. And as I mentioned earlier on, the most recent work that we did, the SAI Independence Index, which was developed by staff in the Global Practice that I lead, was really triggered by the visit of Mr. Dodaro and the leadership of the INTOSAI to the World Bank Group senior management in February 2019. Now, on this topic of supreme audit institutions independence, if a supreme audit institution has adequate independence, it can function effectively. As I mentioned when we were doing the launching of the Supreme Audit Index last in April, SAIs can procure capacity, but they cannot procure independence. Okay. With independence for instance, you can have good leadership of supreme audit institution with security, we know, and adequate operational financial independence. And with that they can be able to contract capacity from outside and move the supreme audit institution in a direction that will add value to the public resource management and accountability space. But one thing we know, I mean, based on years of experience on this very particular topic, is that independence is deeply political. And it defies purely technical solution. I mean, we know all the things that needed to be done for a supreme audit institution to be independent. So it's easy to do, but the real issue is they are about political decisions, and that's what will really make it difficult. So let me come then to the point you make about your question about the challenges that supreme audit institutions phase. We can really classify this, I think, into two categories. We have the issue of capacity and independence. And capacity, I mean, you have varying levels of capacity in different countries, and a lot of these also, they have to do with the governance in the various countries. But we know that some of the challenges we have in terms of capacity, that it can be addressed with some technical solutions. Now, with respect to the challenges on independence, maybe I should provide some data, at least for the audience to be able to appreciate what we are talking about. If you take the World Bank's SAI Independence Index report, which covers 118 countries, you will find that there are challenges with financial autonomy in 90 countries -- 90 out of 118 countries. When you talk about staffing autonomy, there are challenges in 96 countries out of 118 countries. When you talk about transparency in the appointment of the head of supreme audit institutions, there are issues in 72 of the 118 countries. Then you also talk about statutory provisions for independence. This is problematic in 69 of the 118 countries. So that kind of gives you the magnitude of the challenge. Now, as I said earlier on, the capacity challenge can be tackled with technical solutions. I mean, development partners can support supreme audit institutions to build capacity. That is what we are doing in the INTOSAI Donor Cooperation. And you have a number of supreme audit institutions that are doing that on their own, like the Government Accountability Office's Center for Audit Excellence. I mean, they are supporting capacity strengthening. And you have some other supreme audit institutions that are doing the same. Now, the only thing I will say about the capacity strengthening is that we have to recognize that this is a long-term endeavor, as for many other capacity strengthening efforts. Now, as I said earlier on, SAIs can procure capacity from outside. So while capacity is being built in some supreme audit institutions, they can procure and interim some capacity from outside to augment their in-house capacity. Now, what is difficult to tackle is the issue of independence, which I had mentioned earlier. And we really need all hands to be on deck. Just anyone and everyone interested in public accountability needs to be involved. One thing we could be doing from our side, for instance, as development partners, and what INTOSAI could be doing, I mean, IDI is doing some of this, also is we could be producing and putting out more information on the level of independence to really generate interest from the various stakeholders, and also to give them the ammunition that they need to be able to engage with various governments in different countries. I mean, if you are going to engage in policy dialogue, you need some analysis, some information -- information that is credible to engage. Then even by putting out some of this information, countries can begin to see where they stand compared to other countries, and there could be peer pressures on a number governments to improve independence of supreme audit institutions. And finally, I will say that development partners and institutional leadership needs to continue to strengthen their engagements, and also collaborate on this agenda, especially as we are doing through the INTOSAI Development Cooperation. Because a lot of our efforts also, in addition to the strengthening of capacity of supreme audit institution, has focused on the issue of independence, especially in recent years. And I think important leaders like Gene Dodaro and supreme audit institutions like the GAO and others also, they need to continue to stay engaged on this very important agenda of supreme audit institutions independence. So I think this will remain an important area of work for us going forward. Thank you, Steve, back to you. >> Stephen Sanford: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much, Ed, for those comments. And I think we also -- I wanted to acknowledge the comment as well from Dr. Alangari, thank you for those well wishes. We appreciate them. Thank you very much to our panelists here, Einer Gorrisen and Janet St. Laurent and Ed Olowo-Okere representing organizations that have had an outsized impact on the audit community around the world through IDI, through the Center for Audit Excellence and through the World Bank. I also wanted to thank our earlier panelists, Berri Davis, Michele Sager and Mark Gaffigan from GAO to talk about their contributions to INTOSAI. And it's been a privilege to speak with you all today. And as part of GAO's centennial celebrations this year, to take our own stock of the extraordinary amount of international engagement that GAO has had in the past and will continue to have in the future. And you have all been important partners. Thank you also to the team that helped make today possible. And I also wanted to thank Dr. Kraker for her time joining us for the keynote introduction. So with that, we'll close out today's event. Thank you very much for your participation, and have a good day.