From the U.S. Government Accountability Office, www.gao.gov Transcript for: National Security Snapshot, the Challenges of China Description: China has made tremendous gains in its military capabilities over the last 20 years and is striving to be a world class military. China's increasingly assertive demeanor on the world stage, as well as its combined economic, diplomatic, military and technological, might present significant threats to our national security. We find out more from GAO's Cathy Berrick--the managing director of our Defense Capabilities and Management Team. Related GAO Work: GAO-22-105448, National Security Snapshot: Challenges Facing DOD in Strategic Competition with China Released: February 2022 [Cathy Berrick:] DOD faces a lot of challenges in strategic competition against China, and there's unfortunately no silver bullet solution. [Music] [Holly Hobbs:] Hi and welcome to GAO's watchdog report--your source for news and information from the U.S. Government Accountability Office. I'm your host, Holly Hobbs. China has made tremendous gains in its military capabilities over the last 20 years. And its increasingly assertive demeanor on the world stage, as well as its combined economic, diplomatic, military and technological might present significant threats to our national security. Today, we'll talk with Cathy Berrick--the managing director of our Defense Capabilities and Management Team-- about our new National Security Snapshot that looks at these challenges. Thanks for joining us. [Cathy Berrick:] It's great to be here. Thanks. [Holly Hobbs:] So, Cathy, why are we talking about China now? [Cathy Berrick:] Well, the world has changed a lot over the last couple of decades when you consider China's military and economic growth. Now, during this time, the U.S. military, as you know, has largely been focused on counterterrorism and counterinsurgency missions in the Middle East, while China has been transforming its military from being largely obsolete into a major power. And, of course, China's economic growth has been staggering as well. In fact, the Biden administration has referenced China as really being the only competitor potentially capable of combining its hard and soft power to challenge a stable and open international system. So, I think we have to consider China's military capabilities in the context of their broader national goals and influence. Now the good news is that the Department of Defense has begun adjusting its priorities to better deal with strategic competition with China. But DOD is that proverbial big ship that takes a long time to turn. [Holly Hobbs:] So given all that is the Department of Defense ready to take on China if they need to? [Cathy Berrick:] The short answer is yes, but unless DOD takes action over time, their position and advantage could erode. That's why some within DOD refer to China as a pacing threat. Now, what DOD leaders tell us is that strategic competition is here now, today. And if DOD is going to maintain its advantage, it really needs to make some significant changes. Our national security snapshot highlights some of the difficult challenges DOD faces and points to changes the department should implement in order to be better prepared. [Holly Hobbs:] And Cathy, our new report, our snapshot, looks at five areas of challenges that the Department of Defense faces when it comes to China. Maybe you can help us go through them one-by-one and for each talk a little bit about the risks and DOD's efforts so far and any gaps that we found in these efforts. Can we start with cybersecurity? [Cathy Berrick:] Sure. Well, it's been widely reported by DOD and others that China has been accessing large amounts of sensitive government information and industrial secrets to help it quickly catch up with U.S. technological advantages. And DOD also believes that China will use its cyber capabilities to deter or degrade our military's ability to react during a crisis. But DOD is well aware of this threat and is taking actions to address it. For example, we reported that the department developed lists of cyber techniques that adversaries, including China, use and identified practices to best protect their networks and systems. But challenges still do exist. For example, we found that DOD has really struggled to ensure its weapons systems can withstand cyberattacks, and also that the department needs to do a better job incorporating security requirements into their contracts. [Holly Hobbs:] What about stuff like satellite communication or other threats from space? [Cathy Berrick:] Threats to and in space have gotten a lot of attention during the last few years, including, of course, with Russia's recent weapons tests that created a huge amount of debris in space. There were also news reports just last week that a Chinese satellite actually grabbed another Chinese satellite and pulled it out of its orbit, which really demonstrates a significant leap and anti-satellite capabilities. Now, space is very important because DOD, of course, relies on its space based capabilities for communications, for navigation and targeting, and also for intelligence collection. And China knows this and is actively developing systems that could counter these capabilities. In our snapshot, we talk a little bit about DOD's efforts in satellite communications, missile warning satellites and military space systems, and identified a number of actions DOD can take to address some gaps. [Holly Hobbs:] So what about the threat of the Chinese Navy? It's been in the news a lot lately because of action in the South China Sea. [Cathy Berrick:] Well, China continues to use its navy to enforce its disputed territorial claims and advance its interests, which really threatens freedom of navigation in this important region. And really across the board, China has really a robust maritime capability. And in fact has the largest navy and shipbuilding capacity in the world. One area where DOD has a distinct advantage, though, is in their attack submarines. The U.S. military can use these subs to gather intelligence, insert Special Forces, and also attack enemy targets. However, we found that the Navy lost over 10,000 operational days for these subs between 2008 and 2018, where they couldn't use or trained with these important assets due to maintenance challenges, which was really a key loss and capability. [Holly Hobbs:] And the fourth area we identified was anti-access/ area denial. Let's start with what is that, and what are the risks there? [Cathy Berrick:] So anti-access/area denial is essentially the concept that the best way to win a conflict with an adversary, and especially a strong adversary like the United States, is to prevent them from deploying their forces into the theater of conflict in the first place. And this is an area where China has really been expanding their capabilities, especially within their region. And so this capability impacts our military's ability to intervene during a crisis. Now, DOD is investing a lot of money in new weapons systems designed to counter China's capabilities in this area. However, our snapshot references challenges, not only with the weapons systems themselves, but also with getting forces to the theater and sustaining them once they're there. We've made a number of recommendations to strengthen DOD's efforts in these areas. [Holly Hobbs:] And Cathy, the last area we looked at was artificial intelligence, which I guess I'm surprised to see as an area of risk on our list. Can you tell us a little bit about that? [Cathy Berrick:] Sure. So AI is a critical technology that likely is going to have significant implications for many more fighting functions--from logistics to intelligence activities and really everything in between. China recognizes this and views AI as critical to its future military and industrial power and is investing very heavily in AI. And in fact, China has been very open with their goal to be the global leader in AI by 2030. DOD can take action to ensure they're better prepared to take advantage of AI and maintain that advantage over China, as China attempts to do the same. GAO's new AI accountability framework can help DOD ensure it's most efficiently adopting AI and using it responsibly. [Music] [Holly Hobbs:] So Cathy just told us that our national security faces a number of growing challenges from China--including in the areas like cybersecurity, space, and the use of artificial intelligence. And that while the Department of Defense has taken action to respond to these threats, we here at GAO have made many recommendations to improve these efforts. So, Cathy, what are some of the key considerations Congress or the Department of Defense should think about as we prepare for the threat of China? [Cathy Berrick:] Well, I think it's important for Congress and DOD to continue to have this China pacing threat reality at the forefront of their thinking because business as usual for DOD is really a losing proposition. This means they're going to have to figure out how to adapt everything the department does away from the current Industrial Age approach to something more suitable for the Information Age. Our role at GAO is to help find those areas for improvement to help DOD make this transformation. And in terms of policy considerations, I think they're really centered around DOD's capabilities to respond to the range of potential threats, including issues like maintaining supply chains, gathering and exploiting intelligence, and responsibly leveraging technologies like space, cyber, and AI capabilities. [Holly Hobbs:] And our new report is just a snapshot of this issue. How is it different than our other reports, and why did we decide to do a snapshot on this topic? [Cathy Berrick:] Well, the challenges posed by China are so broad that they touch on areas across DOD that really can't be comprehensively covered in any one report. And so this three page snapshot draws on GAO's large body of unclassified work. To summarize key challenges the department faces, steps they've taken, and GAO recommendations that could help DOD further improve its efforts. And we decided to do the snapshot on competition with China, in particular, because DOD views China as the most significant, long-term security threat facing the US, and also because the department is refocusing its strategy to align against this threat. The Congress is also very focused on DOD's capabilities in areas that can be strengthened in this area. [Holly Hobbs:] And last question, what's the bottom line of your report? [Cathy Berrick:] Our bottom line is that DOD faces a lot of challenges in strategic competition with China, and there's unfortunately no silver bullet solution to address them. The good news is that DOD knows this and is taking action, although our work has found that DOD will need to continue its course and strengthen its capabilities to be best positioned to face this threat. And continue congressional oversight will be important as they do. I really don't think it's an understatement to say that strategic competition with China is unlike any other challenge DOD has faced. And we look forward to trying to help the department as it grapples with this problem. [Holly Hobbs:] That was Cathy Berrick talking about GAO's new snapshot on the national security challenges China poses. Thanks for your time, Cathy. [Cathy Berrick:] My pleasure. Thanks, Holly. [Holly Hobbs:] And thank you for listening to the Watchdog Report. To hear more podcasts, subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen and make sure to leave a rating and review to let others know about the work we're doing. For more from the congressional watchdog, the U.S. Government Accountability Office, visit us at GAO.gov.