From the U.S. Government Accountability Office, www.gao.gov

Transcript for: The 2021 High Risk Update

Description: Every two years with the arrival of a new Congress, GAO
issues updates to our High Risk List--highlighting some areas of
government that are particularly at risk of waste, fraud, abuse,
mismanagement or in need of broad based transformation. We talk with
GAO's Chris Mihm--an expert on government operations and the managing
director of our Strategic Issues Team--to learn more. 

Related GAO Work: GAO-21-119SP, High-Risk Series: Dedicated Leadership
Needed to Address Limited Progress in Most High-Risk Areas

Released: March 2021 

[Intro music:]

[Chris Mihm:] We think that overall that there needs to be much more top
leadership attention to these high risk areas.

[Holly Hobbs:] Hi, and welcome to GAO's Watchdog Report, your source for
news and information from the U.S. Government Accountability
Office--celebrating 100 years of fact-based nonpartisan government
oversight. I'm Holly Hobbs. Every 2 years, with the arrival of a new
Congress, GAO issues updates to our High Risk List--highlighting some
areas of government that are particularly at risk of waste, fraud,
abuse, mismanagement, or in need of broad based transformation. Today we
talk with Chris Mihm--an expert on government operations and the
managing director of our Strategic Issues Team--about our 2021 High Risk
Update. Thank you for joining me, Chris.

[Chris Mihm:] My pleasure. Glad to be here. 

[Holly Hobbs:] So, Chris, COVID-19 has had a big impact on government
operations. Were there any areas added to our High Risk List as a
result?

[Chris Mihm:] Yes, one. Emergency loans for small businesses was added
to the list. Now, the Small Business Administration, SBA, provided
hundreds of billions of dollars in loans and advances to help small
businesses recover from the economic impacts of COVID-19. These loans
were a big benefit to many small businesses. But the evidence of fraud
and significant program integrity risks need much greater attention in
oversight and management focus, and that's what got that on the High
Risk List.

[Holly Hobbs:] Were there any other areas that we added this year?

[Chris Mihm:] There was one other area and that's dealing with a drug
misuse. Specifically, the national efforts to prevent and respond to and
recover from drug misuse. National rates of drug misuse have been
increasing, and there's been a significant loss of life and harmful
effects to society and the economy and obviously, most importantly, to
the individuals. We identified a number of challenges in the federal
government's response, such as the need for greater leadership and
coordination of the national effort; strategic guidance that fulfills
all the various statutory requirements--Congress has really stepped up
and put in place a good statutory set of responses to this--and more
effective implementation and monitoring in order to get on top of the
national crisis of drug misuse.

[Holly Hobbs:] And did anything come off our list this year?

[Chris Mihm:] We took one off the High Risk List, and it's actually been
on there for a very long time. And this is Department of Defense, DOD's
support infrastructure came off the High Risk List. DOD has more
efficiently used its leased space, reduced its infrastructure footprint,
improved its use of installation agreements and reduced its base support
costs. And, reportedly, that's been by millions of dollars. And so
that's a big deal. Now, the fact that something comes off the High Risk
List it doesn't mean all the risk goes away. It just means, in our view,
it's being effectively managed by the owning agency. And, it doesn't
mean that GAO goes away. We'll continue to monitor and be doing
evaluations and audits of DOD's efforts, just like we do with every
other area that comes off the High Risk List. So we'll be continuing to
pay attention to this area.

[Holly Hobbs:] So it sounds like there are a number of areas that we
will see again on our 2021 High Risk Update, but that COVID-19 and other
national challenges have added to this list. Chris, what happens as a
result of adding something to the High Risk List?

[Chris Mihm:] We have found right from the very beginning of the High
Risk Program-- back when we started it in the early 1990s-- that each
incoming Congress uses the High Risk Program to help inform its
oversight and legislative agendas. We want the High Risk List to be
useful to the Congress, useful to agencies, useful to the top of the
Executive Branch in order to really pinpoint those areas across
government that are in most need of attention to improve the health and
security and well-being of the American people and to save very often
tens of millions or even billions of dollars. So, for example, just in
terms of the savings, for the last 15 years, we totaled about $575
billion or an average of $38 billion a year in financial accomplishments
in addressing high risk issues. Since our last update in 2019, we
recorded over $225 billion in financial benefits. And so there are huge
improvements in savings that can be achieved through addressing high
risk issues. This often requires, obviously, very dedicated e
fforts on the part of the Executive Branch, continuing oversight on the
part of the Congress and, in some cases, statutory changes on the on the
part of the Congress as well.

[Holly Hobbs:] So we do a High Risk Update every 2 years. Why not every
4 years with a new administration, or every year when we have new
findings? 

[Chris Mihm:] First, the 2 years rather than 4 is that we do it with
each new Congress coming in. And that's usually the time when they are
most likely to take a step back and think about what is going to be
their big oversight issues? What's the agenda that they're going to want
to look at? There's going to be a lot of things, obviously, that will
come at them that will be unplanned. But there are some things that they
can clearly plan to really make progress on. Why not every year or more
often? Each of these high risk issues is subject to continuing oversight
and audits by GAO Teams. So, there are reports that are coming out all
the time on every single high risk issue. The High Risk Report is just
our opportunity with each new Congress to step back and pull it all
together in one place. If we see an issue out of the cycle that deserves
to be on the High Risk List, we put it on the High Risk List. The
situation with the drugs misuse, in this case, we announced months ago
that we were going to be putting it 
on the High Risk List because it was an issue at that point. We have a
couple of other issues in the report that we say that we're monitoring
that may be on the High Risk List subject to how some of the ongoing
work ends up.

[Holly Hobbs:] So with that said, and given everything that Congress and
the nation is facing right now, it seems like this year's High Risk
Update is special.

[Chris Mihm:] Yes. It's special, and the reason we kind of pitch the
money is that they are looking for every dime that they can get. It's
just so important for them. None of this is going to solve their
long-term problem. But if they can get an extra $38 billion a year
through addressing high risk problems, that begins to fund a cabinet
department. That's real money that could be freed up for the COVID-19
response. And then, as you said, it's important this year because with
small business, SBA, it is a directly a COVID-related issue, other than
other issues, and we have these discussed all throughout the report, are
COVID influenced. You know, everything from strategic human capital
management, which, you know, worries about making sure that we have
people with the right skills in order to address COVID and other issues.
You know, all of them are kind of bathed in the light of the COVID
crisis.

[Holly Hobbs:] And last question, Chris, what's the bottom line of this
year's High Risk Update?

[Chris Mihm:] The bottom line of this year's High Risk Update is that we
found that most of the ratings for the high risk areas have remained
unchanged. And, in fact, some of them regressed. Now, some of them did
improve. We think that overall that there needs to be much more
attention and top leadership attention to these high risk areas. Some of
them have been on there, as I mentioned, for quite a long period of
time. They're hard issues, and so they're not going to be addressed
easily or quickly. But there needs to be more attention, better action
plans put in place, better monitoring of those action plans and
demonstrable results that we get from those in order to continue to make
achievements. Much more needs to be done.

[Holly Hobbs:] That was Managing Director Chris Mihm talking about GAO's
2021, High Risk Update. Thank you for your time, Chris.

[Chris Mihm:] Thank you.

[Holly Hobbs:] And thank you for listening to the Watchdog Report. To
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