From the U.S. Government Accountability Office, www.gao.gov Transcript for: 2020 DOD Weapons Programs Quick Look Description: Every year, GAO provides an assessment of the Department of Defense's major acquisitions programs. Shelby Oakley talks about some new additions to this year's report. Related GAO Work: GAO-20-439, Defense Acquisitions Annual Assessment: Drive to Deliver Capabilities Faster Increases Importance of Program Knowledge and Consistent Data for Oversight Released: June 2020 [ Intro Music ] [Shelby Oakley:] We continue to see programs proceeding without knowledge. [Matt Oldham:] Welcome to GAO's Watchdog Report, your source for news and information from the US Government Accountability Office. I'm Matt Oldham. GAO performs an annual assessment of the Department of Defense's Major Acquisitions Programs. It provides a quick look at the investments, schedules, and practices for weapons systems like aircraft, ships, and satellites. With me to talk about this year's defense acquisitions quick look is Shelby Oakley, a Contracting and National Security Acquisitions director. Thank you for joining me, Shelby. [Shelby Oakley:] Thanks for having me, Matt. [Matt Oldham:] First off, is there anything new with this year's report? [Shelby Oakley:] There is plenty new in this year's report. This year we took a look at 121 total systems that are worth about $1.8 trillion. Those include the normal systems that we've looked at in the past as major defense acquisition programs, such as planes and ships and that kind of thing, but it also includes 15 IT systems and also 13 rapid prototyping and fielding programs, so we've expanded our scope pretty significantly this year. [Matt Oldham:] So, I've got a good understanding of what an IT system is, but could you talk a little more about rapid prototyping and fielding programs? [Shelby Oakley:] These are programs that are really intended to, they're called middle-tier programs, they're intended to expedite development and fielding of capabilities. These things are supposed to get to the warfighter within two to five years. And really, over the past couple of years, military departments have been increasing their use of these middle-tier programs, and some of these efforts really stand out, because of how much they cost. For example, the Air Force's Next-Generation Overhead Persistent Infrared Program, it's going to consist of multiple rapid prototyping efforts, but just the first prototyping effort, just to deliver a sensor for satellites will cost over $8 billion. [ Music ] [Matt Oldham:] So, it sounds like there are some new additions to this year's DOD Major Acquisitions Programs Assessment, specifically the rapid prototyping and fielding programs. Shelby, does the addition of these programs shed light on different challenges? [Shelby Oakley:] These programs, these middle-tier programs, they aren't really subject to the rules and requirements that regular weapon system acquisition programs are required to do. You know, the department thinks that this will allow them to go faster, but we have a little bit of concern that they are proceeding without adequate knowledge and oversight. We observed that there was really inconsistent cost reporting and wide variation in schedule reporting around these programs. And that's, frankly, one of the key risks that I think DOD faces is that it doesn't have the appropriate oversight to be able to ensure that it's going to get these capabilities faster. Getting capabilities to the warfighter faster is really one of the key concerns of the Department of Defense because national security threats are really evolving, particularly from countries like China and Russia. And while DOD and Congress are really taking steps to try and push streamlining and push capabilities to the warfighter, you know, maintaining cost and schedule and capabilities during this time and making sure we're going to get what we paid for is going to be critical to making that actually happen. [Matt Oldham:] And so, what are some of the things that the Department of Defense can do to get to that point? [Shelby Oakley:] Yeah, I mean, I think that it's going to take careful oversight. It's going to take flexibility. It's going to take understanding of what is actually being done under these programs and what are we expecting to get as an outcome of these programs. Another thing that it's going to take is really considering the types of programs that we're building now. Increasingly, these programs that the Department of Defense are starting are software-based. They're software-dependent capabilities, and so we wanted to take a look at how the department was implementing leading software development approaches and cybersecurity practices, and unfortunately, we found a lot of inconsistency and a lot of challenges there that could threaten DOD's ability to field these weapons systems more quickly. [Matt Oldham:] Shelby, what's the bottom line, here? [Shelby Oakley:] DOD really seems to have made some good progress in controlling recent cost and schedule growth on its weapons programs but, like I said, we're really uncertain whether these improvements are going to persist in future years because we continue to see programs proceeding without knowledge. And as DOD strives to deliver capabilities faster, it faces this new challenge, particularly with managing those middle-tier programs. DOD really has some work to do to determine how it's going to oversee those programs in a consistent fashion so that at the end of that two to five years, we're getting the capabilities that we need to the warfighter faster. [Matt Oldham:] Shelby Oakley was talking about an annual GAO report taking a quick look at DOD's Major Acquisitions Programs. Thank you for your time, Shelby. [Shelby Oakley:] Thank you. [Matt Oldham:] And thank you for listening to the Watchdog Report. To hear more podcasts, subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts. Make sure you leave a rating and review to let others know about the work we're doing. For more from the congressional watchdog, the US Government Accountability Office, visit us at gao.gov.