From the U.S. Government Accountability Office, www.gao.gov Transcript for: Automated Trucking and the Workforce Description: We discuss how federal agencies are preparing for potential workforce changes coming from the future of automated trucking. Related GAO Work: GAO-19-161: Automated Trucking: Federal Agencies Should Take Additional Steps to Prepare for Potential Workforce Effects Released: March 2019 [ Background Music ] [ Cindy Brown Barnes: ] Federal agencies have an opportunity to prepare drivers, and others for possible workforce effects. [ Matt Oldham: ] Welcome to GAO's Watchdog Report, your source for news and information from the U.S. Government Accountability Office. I'm Matt Oldham. There are plenty of unknowns about the future of automated trucking. Developers hope it can make commercial trucking more efficient and safer, but will we ever see it on the highway? And if so what will it look like? I'm with Cindy Brown Barns, an Education, Workforce, and Income Security director at GAO, and she led a report looking into another unknown of automated trucking, what changes it could bring for the nearly 1.9 million truck drivers on our roads. Thank you for joining me, Cindy. [ Cindy Brown Barnes: ] Thank you. [ Matt Oldham: ] So will automated trucking put long haul drivers out of work? [ Cindy Brown Barnes: ] That's a great question, but it's too soon to tell. There are two main futures scenarios, and any workforce changes will depend, in part, on the role of future truck drivers or operators. Under the first scenario some people, including technology developers, say these trucks will eventually be able to drive on a highway without a driver. For example, a local driver may transport goods from a factory to a drop off area, near a highway, but then the automated truck will pick up that trailer and drive the rest of the route. Under this scenario there likely would be fewer long haul jobs someday, but could also reduce wages, because there would be fewer jobs per truck worker or truck driver. In contrast under the scenario where there's a driver, some believe that a person will always be needed to be able to do tasks that are not easily automated, such as fueling, changing tires, loading and unloading of trucks. And under this scenario, if there's a driver or truck operator they wouldn't be as much of an effect on a number of people employed. [ Matt Oldham: ] If we're talking about fewer truck drivers down the line, and if we're talking about a possible future where we don't have humans doing this long haul driving, is anybody in the federal government looking at how we can help that portion of the workforce find work elsewhere or soften the blow for not having this job out there? [ Cindy Brown Barnes: ] Departments of Labor, and Transportation, and they're working together to analyze the workforce effects of automated tracking. And that's a key question, and that speaks to our recommendations, and why we're recommending that it's important for the Department of Labor, and the Department of Transportation not just to share information amongst themselves, but with key stakeholders, so they can involve those that would be most immediately impacted. [ Background Music ] [ Matt Oldham: ] So it sounds like this labor, and transportation are looking at this issue. There are two prevailing scenarios out there. The one that could be without truck drivers, and the one that would still require human in the truck to do some of these other more specific tasks. But, Cindy, I've got to ask, could the future hold a scenario where children on family vacation or field trips won't have truck drivers to ask to blow the horn. You know, you reach up to pretend like you're grabbing the string, and as a reward you get that [makes sound] from a truck. That's what I really want to know. [ Cindy Brown Barnes: ] Probably not today's kids. A lot of them may be adults before these changes are really widespread, but that could be the case, and sometime in the future for at least some trucks. [ Matt Oldham: ] So what recommendations did your team have? [ Cindy Brown Barnes: ] We recommended that the Department of Labor, and Transportation, continue to work together with stakeholders to analyze the workforce effects of these changes. And actually they're working on an analysis, and that should be completed in a few weeks. We also recommended that the agencies work together to help inform transportation's trucking regulations, like, what skills a person needs to obtain a commercial driver's license. And we also recommended that labor consult with transportation to share information with key stakeholders as the technology evolves. [ Matt Oldham: ] Lastly, what do you believe is the bottom line of this report? [ Cindy Brown Barnes: ] The bottom line of this report is that automated trucking won't impact the workforce immediately. So, federal agencies have an opportunity to prepare drivers and others for possible workforce effects. [ Matt Oldham: ] Cindy Brown Barnes led a GAO report examining possible effects of automated trucking on the workforce. Thank you for your time, Cindy. [ Cindy Brown Barnes: ] Thank you. [ Background Music ] [ Matt Oldham: ] And thank you for listening to the Watchdog Report. To hear more podcasts, subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts. [ Background Music ] [ Matt Oldham: ] For more from the congressional watchdog, the U.S. Government Accountability Office, visit us at gao.gov.