From the U.S. Government Accountability Office, www.gao.gov Transcript for: Electricity Providers Description: The electric grid provides electricity to millions of people. We discuss the possible impacts to daily life and infrastructure if the grid were disrupted by an electromagnetic event. Related GAO Work: GAO-18-67: Critical Infrastructure Protection: Electricity Suppliers Have Taken Actions to Address Electromagnetic Risks, but Additional Research Remains for Enhancing Mitigation Efforts Released: February 2018 [ Background Music ] [ Frank Rusco: ] It's like a lightning strike. If you don't have grounded equipment, and lightning hits your house, and it can fry everything. [ Sarah Kaczmarek: ] Welcome to GAO's Watchdog Report, your source for news and information from the U.S. Government Accountability Office. I'm Sarah Kaczmarek. Picture this: An electromagnetic weapon detonates at a high altitude, knocking out the power grid and bringing commerce to a halt. Is this the latest sci-fi blockbuster? Could be. But these types of electromagnetic events are more science fact than science fiction. Recently, I sat down with GAO directors Chris Currie and Frank Rusco to find out more about what power companies are doing to mitigate electromagnetic risks. So I asked Chris, how would an event like this impact daily life? [ Chris Currie: ] Folks across government and the electric industry don't always agree on how worried we should be about this threat. It's not science fiction. This does show up in things like the National Security Strategy for the whole United States, so there is concern about it. There's been a lot of testing done over the years that shows that electromagnetic events can have a big impact on the electric grid. I think what's not known because it's never happened is how long and widespread the damage would be. So the major concern for the electric grid is long-term power outages. The longer we don't have power, the more society starts to break down. We saw this after Hurricane Maria in Puerto Rico and are still seeing that the power grid really underlies all other major, critical infrastructure sectors. So without it, bad things start to happen really quickly. [ Sarah Kaczmarek: ] Let me turn to you here, Frank. So how well do electricity suppliers understand these types of events and how they might impact their networks? [ Frank Rusco: ] Well, it's a mixed bag. There have not been a lot of experiences with this. However, there have been some recent studies. So understanding is growing, especially with respect to solar events like a solar flare that might disrupt the grid or cause damage to equipment. [ Sarah Kaczmarek: ] You mentioned a recent study. What were some of the main risks that that study identified? [ Frank Rusco: ] So what can happen is with some kind of pulse, whether it's a solar flare or a nuclear detonation, essentially, unprotected wires will just melt. It's like a lightning strike. If you don't have grounded equipment, and lightning hits your house, and it can fry everything. It also, what's less known is how much damage can occur to all the smaller components -- the computers and the control systems -- so there's a lot of work to try to figure out what can be done about that. [ Sarah Kaczmarek: ] All right, so let's talk about money. Is it expensive for electricity providers to implement regulations or practices to help protect them from these types of events? [ Frank Rusco: ] Well, if you have things like older transformers that are more susceptible to damage and you're going to replace these eventually anyways, well, that's kind of part of the cost of doing business that gets passed on to consumers. There are things that you might invest in like spare transformers and spare parts that you could quickly swap out in the event that you had damage. That's kind of carrying extra capacity that, again, has to be passed on to consumers. [ Background Music ] [ Sarah Kaczmarek: ] Since so much in this area is still unknown, I asked Chris to tell me how federal agencies are doing implementing prior GAO recommendations in this area. [ Chris Currie: ] Most of our recommendations have focused on the federal agencies that oversee and regulate the electric industry and provide homeland security so that there's not been clarity in this area about who's responsible for what. So we've told the Departments of Homeland Security and Energy that they need to first figure out who's responsible for what and then figure out what needs to be done to address it. [ Sarah Kaczmarek: ] So taking a step back, I want to ask you back what you see as the bottom line here. Frank, I'll turn to you first. [ Frank Rusco: ] The bottom line is there's a risk here. We don't know the full extent of it. It's something that both private industry and government are working on to try to establish how much of a risk there is and what to do about it. So be worried but not too worried. [ Sarah Kaczmarek: ] All right, and Chris, final words to you. [ Chris Currie: ] Like everything else across our country, it's impossible to snap your fingers and just secure everything. I think the key in this area, especially with the electric grid, is to figure out the most vulnerable points and to study that further and the impacts of electromagnetic events, and then target your resources and efforts to the most vulnerable areas. [ Background Music ] [ Sarah Kaczmarek: ] Thanks for listening to the Watchdog Report. To hear more podcasts, subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts. [ Background Music ] [ Sarah Kaczmarek: ] For more from the congressional watchdog, the U.S. Government Accountability Office, visit us at GAO.gov.