From the U.S. Government Accountability Office, www.gao.gov Transcript for: K-12 Geography Education Description: Audio Interview by GAO staff with Jackie Nowicki, Director, Education, Workforce, and Income Security Related GAO Work: GAO-16-7: K-12 Education: Most Eighth Grade Students are Not Proficient in Geography Released: October 2015 [ Background Music ] [ Narrator ] Welcome to GAO's Watchdog Report, your source for news and information from the U.S. Government Accountability Office. It's October 2015. Geography has many applications in modern life, from tracking lost cell phones to monitoring Ebola outbreaks. The growing use of geographic information and location-based technology in American workplaces has prompted questions about whether K through 12 geography education is adequate preparation for the workforce. A team lead by Jackie Nowicki, a director in GAO's Education, Workforce, and Income Security team, recently reviewed geography education in American schools. GAO's Jacques Arsenault sat down with Jackie to discuss what they found. [ Jacques Arsenault: ] Geography. In an age of instant access to information on our phones or tablets, sometimes even our TVs, can you tell me why is geography and geography education important? [ Jackie Nowicki: ] Yeah, great question. So, you know, geography is not just memorizing state capitals and the difference between an island and a peninsula, you know, like we did when we were kids in school. Geographic information is a key piece of location-based technologies, and they influence almost every facet of modern life. So everything from tracking lost cell phones to monitoring disease outbreaks like Ebola. And these geography dependent technologies, so things like the GPS in your car or your smartphone, and also geographic information systems are used in all kinds of ways. You know, we track hurricanes like Katrina and Sandy. And even to deciding, you know, where to locate supermarkets in underserved communities. [ Jacques Arsenault: ] Now, I've had an old Sam Cooke song stuck in my head for a couple of weeks now. [laughs] The song said, "Don't know much about geography." It looks from your report like that's true about many American students. Can you tell me about what you looked at and what you found? [ Jackie Nowicki: ] Sure. So I think in order to understand what we found, which talks about how proficient kids are in geography, we need to first understand what it means to be proficient. So the National Assessment of Education Progress is a nationally representative student assessment in various subject areas that kids take at various points in time during their elementary and high school career. And this assessment, which we call NAEP, defines three levels of performance -- basic, proficient, and advanced. So proficiency, as NAEP defines it, represents solid academic performance and competency over challenging subject matter. So proficient is really the level where we want to see kids scoring. What we found is that about three-quarters of eighth grade students, which is the only year for which trend data is available, were not proficient in geography in 2014. And that really hasn't changed since 1994. And even when we look at the data that we have on fourth and twelfth grade students at different points in time, you know, that picture really isn't any rosier either. So for example, in 2010, only about 20 percent of twelfth graders scored at or above proficient in geography. [ Jacques Arsenault: ] So these performance levels are not high. What were some of the things that you heard when you talked to schools and teachers about geography education? [ Jackie Nowicki: ] In researching this report, when we spoke to state education officials and also to teachers themselves, it became clear to us that the major challenge is that spending time and resources in geography education is difficult kind of given our strong national and state focus on tested subjects like reading and math and science. And that's consistent with our prior research and also studies from the Department of Education that they've done over time. And what those studies have found is that as instruction time in reading and English and math has increased, instruction time in social studies, which is usually the vehicle through which geography is taught, has declined. It's just really hard to squeeze it all in during the full day. I would also say teachers often don't have a background in geography and they don't necessarily receive the kind of training that would allow them to build up their skills in this area to be more comfortable teaching it. And high quality textbooks and learning materials as well as access to geography technologies are not always available in the classroom due to resource constraints. [ Jacques Arsenault: ] Now, you mentioned the U.S. Department of Education, but education is mostly a state and local issue, so what role does the Federal Government play here? [ Jackie Nowicki: ] Yeah, great question. So, you know, Education's role really is somewhat limited here for the reasons that you mentioned. Primarily, their role is to assess student performance in the subject and to provide data and results of those assessments to the public. So other than the NAEP data, Education really doesn't have any initiatives or programs specific to K12 geography education. [ Jacques Arsenault: ] And finally then, for the American public and for students, what would you say is the bottom line of this report? [ Jackie Nowicki: ] The majority of American kids are not proficient in geography. And the national trend data that we have show that it's been that way for decades and it's really not getting any better. And given the growing use and importance of geographic and location-based technologies, especially in a global economy, this has real implications for current and future workforce needs. And, you know, it's really challenging for schools to provide kids with adequate exposure to geography given the limited time and resources they're working with and given everything kids need to learn these days, but it's still something that we hope schools and policymakers will continue to focus on. [ Background Music ] [ Narrator: ] To learn more, visit GAO.gov and be sure to tune in to the next episode of GAO's Watchdog Report for more from the congressional watchdog, the U.S. Government Accountability Office.