Title: Gene L. Dodaro, the 8th Comptroller General of the United States and Head of GAO 

Description: For nearly two decades, the U.S. Government Accountability Office was led by Gene L. Dodaro, an auditor who came up-through the ranks of the agency and was sworn in as 8th Comptroller General of the United States in 2010. During his final days at the agency, we sat down with Gene to talk about his tenure at GAO, how the agency and issues it audits have changed, and what he sees at the future of GAO’s efforts. 

Related work: GAO.gov

Released: February 2026

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[Gene L. Dodaro:] While the issues facing our country continue to evolve and change over time, one thing that has remained the same is GAO’s steadfast commitment to providing the Congress with high-quality, professional, objective, fact-based, nonpartisan work that produces good results for the country and the American people.

[Holly Hobbs:] Welcome to GAO's Watchdog Report, your source for fact-based, nonpartisan news and information from the U.S. Government Accountability Office. I'm your host, Holly Hobbs.
For nearly two decades, the U.S. Government Accountability Office has been led by Gene L. Dodaro, an auditor who came up-through the ranks of the agency and was sworn in as the 8th Comptroller General of the United States in 2010. Prior to this, Gene served as GAO’s acting head for more than 2 years.
In the weeks before the end of his term, we sat down with Gene to talk about his tenure at GAO—including how the challenges facing federal agencies and Americans have changed, and what he sees as the future of GAO’s efforts. Gene, thanks for joining us.

[Gene L. Dodaro:] Thank you, Holly.

[Holly Hobbs:] So, Gene, you've been Comptroller General for 15 years. But you've been at GAO for 50 years. How has the work here changed? How has the issues we audit changed in your time?

[Gene Dodaro:] It’s changed in several different aspects, Holly. One is we're much more closely aligned to Congress's agenda. When I first came with GAO, less than a third of what we did was in direct response to a congressional request or mandate. Right now, it's over 95% of what we do. Now, we're in constant contact with the Congress. We do work for 90% of the standing committees of the Congress, across the full range and breadth of federal government's operations. And so, we're heavily engaged and have a wide footprint across the Congress. 
So, we're more in sync with the agenda, number one, and Congress's priorities. 
Secondly, we're much more attuned to emerging issues. You know, 50 years ago there wasn’t attention on information technology or security. When I came to GAO, we barely had computers. But the whole government's changed, you know, from a paper-based system to a digital system and forward that science and technology has changed. GAO is doing more work now. We're a lot of one on the Congress and science and technology areas. 
And one of the characteristics of GAO that is a hallmark of GAO is it's constantly evolving. We're very dynamic. We're very much in tune with what the changing national needs are, what the environment is both internationally and domestically. 

And we've been brought in more to help the Congress on national emergencies—the global financial crisis, the Great Recession. And the federal government's response to both of those things. GAO was brought in to do real-time auditing. That's another big change. Most of the auditing, in decades ago, was always retrospective. Why did something go wrong? How can we prevent it again? But now we're in there, like the day that the legislation passed dealing with the global financial crisis—we had to be on site the day the law was passed to help make sure that that legislation got implemented effectively. And it was designed to help minimize any fraud and maximize its ability to achieve its objectives, which is the unfreeze the credit markets and get our financial systems working better. So real-time auditing—GAO has kind of come into its own on that in the last couple of decades. And that's very important. And that's another significant change.

[Holly Hobbs:] Have any of the issues stayed the same?

[Gene Dodaro:] Well, there's always issues associated with financial management, proper accountability for making payments. A problem that we've had longstanding on improper payments across the federal government to people who aren't eligible or, you know, in the wrong amounts. Fraud has been a constant problem over time. That’s changed in its complexity because of the use of a number of sophisticated techniques now with synthetic, identity fraud. There's been more international and organized crime components to it because the size and scope of federal government spending, particularly during emergencies like the pandemic. And we saw a great deal of fraud. But there's always been fraud in federal government. Financial management’s been issues. 

The federal workforce—always, you need to change and evolve with the sophistication of what the issues are, you know, associated with federal departments and agencies. I mean, the warfare's changed over time. So, the Defense Department needs new skills. Our space programs changed. Now we've gone to the private sector. But you have to oversee that with a good workforce at NASA. Health care is continually evolving, and they need a sophisticated workforce as well. 

So federal workforce financial management fraud issues have always been there. And will continue to be there until federal government really gets on top of these things. And GAO has made longstanding recommendations to improve that situation. I hope that it gets better as things go forward.
I mean, I find that to be hardest part of my job is to get people focused on trying to prevent things from happening when you could see it coming. And, often times, by the time the government intervenes, it's after there's a crisis, not necessarily to avert one.

[Holly Hobbs:] Were there specific topics—once you became Comptroller General—that you were focused on or interested in the agency doing more work on?

[Gene Dodaro:] I set several priorities. But I didn't limit it. My first priority is make sure we're working on the most important national issues across the board. Having an organized effort to make sure we're focused on those most important national issues is critical. 

I also wanted to see if we could identify the highest risks to the federal government and get as many of those issues solved and off the table as possible. I also wanted to get the federal government on a more fiscally sustainable, long-term fiscal path. I'm not doing so hot on that area. But every year we produce a report. We've called for a plan to help Congress and the administrations to get more focused on dealing with that issue and also change how we deal with the debt ceiling. 
The science and technology area, though, I definitely flagged as an area GAO needed to evolve and grow in, in its capacity and scope of expertise. And Congress ultimately agreed with that, gave us additional resources, and we tripled the size of people. We've got all kinds of scientists. We have an excellent chief scientist for doing technology assessments now on generative AI and its impact, on humans as well as the environment. How AI could be used to expedite drug development, treatment program. Quantum computing, how that's going to change encryption, regenerative medicine in a lot of areas in science and technology, in the health care arena, the modernizing our nuclear weapons complex with nuclear engineers and a lot of sophisticated technologies, and DOD is developing hypersonic weapons, excreta, excreta. 

So GAO’s evolved its capabilities commensurate with the fact that science and technology issues are evolving faster than any time in human history. And so, we need to be able to provide the Congress with the information to help them make informed decisions that are timely as well.

[Holly Hobbs:] One of the big changes was that we're doing more work focused on responding to what Congress is interested in, but we have a Congress that, they’re politicians. How does GAO navigate working for politicians when we have to be nonpartisan? 

[Gene Dodaro:] Well, first of all, you have to have a commitment to, dealing with both parties in an evenhanded basis. We treat chairs of committees, whoever the majority is, and ranking members the same. They both have access to GAO resources. If you're a Republican, you asked GAO a question, a Democrat asks a question, you get the same answer. We're focused and grounded in having making sure our people are independent, nonpartisan, professional. We follow professional standards. We have a quality assurance process. And I've also tried to increase the amount of our work that we do in response to mandates, which are things that are in statutes or committee or conference reports accompanying statutes. By definition, that's the broadest expression of congressional interest. Plus, you can deal with both parties when you're developing the report. So, you understand what all the perspectives are. You're more transparent. You're more open. And so that builds trust during that period of time. So you can deal with the majority and minority parties, both usually in the House and the Senate. 

And so over half of our work now is done in this transparent mandate process. And that's a very market change at GAO, purposely, over the last few years to help deal with, operating in a, a difficult political environment. But we have to maintain the trust that we have in both parties of the Congress. That's why people come to GAO. They get a lot of information, the Congress, from a lot of different places. But we're the place where we don't have an agenda. We give them the facts and we give them good advice and we give them top notch, professional assistance. And then and they trust us. And they know other people in the Congress trust us too. So if they want to get action on a particular policy issue, having a GAO report is a good starting point for them to work with other members to gain consensus on moving legislation in that process. We produce, hundreds of reports each year. And, and I'm very proud of the record that we have.

[Holly Hobbs:] You've been in the role for 15 years. But on day one, was there anything that you thought, oh, I didn't realize I was going to be doing that, or I didn't realize that was part of the job? 

[Gene Dodaro:] No.

[Holly Hobbs:] No, you knew what you were getting into?

[Gene Dodaro:] Yeah, absolutely. Well, I was acting comptroller general for 2 years and 9 months before I became, the 15 years started. So I've actually been in the job now be shy of, 18 years. And before that, I had been, the chief operating officer number two person for nine and a half years. I've been the number two person or the comptroller general at GAO for over a quarter century. So, some things can surprise me, but I wasn't shocked with anything that we had to take on.

[Holly Hobbs:] You can't stay forever. You're term-limited for 15 years and it's coming up. What qualities should they look for in the next CG?

[Gene Dodaro:] First and foremost, you need somebody that both parties in the Congress respect, and somebody that can deal with both parties in a professional manner, be independent and objective. 

It's a long appointment. 15 years, one of the longest in the federal government except for judges. And so, both parties will be coming in and out of the majority party during that 15-year span. You know, it's unlikely that things won't change, that whoever's in the White House, whoever's in majority minority in the Congress, they have to be able to trust you no matter where they are politically in that process. And GAO provides continuity over that time. 

You also need somebody that can manage a multidisciplinary workforce. We audit the financial statements of the federal government. We have a big role in financial management. That's our historical roots. But that's less than 10% of what we do nowadays. We do a lot of performance audits of programs across a wide range of federal government’s activities. I mentioned our growing portfolio in science and technology issues, health care issues are predominant, military readiness, defense issues. I mean, you name it. So, it would be helpful to have somebody who has a broad knowledge of the federal government's activities, it’s in a relationship with state and local governments, its role in international arena, and also how the Congress functions. And so these are the important things. 

But most of all, if you don't have the trust and confidence of the Congress and GAO's workforce. We have a very talented, highly educated, trained workforce. And they'll want somebody that can provide leadership to them, that—where the person will understand what they're doing, add value to what they're doing, and to help guide the agency and importantly, be a good spokesperson for the agency that will enhance its reputation going forward, because that ultimately is what makes us effective as an organization.

[Holly Hobbs:] You're the eighth Comptroller General. Are you the first that's come through the ranks?

[Gene Dodaro:] Yes.

[Holly Hobbs:] How has that made your experience different from your predecessors?

[Gene Dodaro:] There's some people that think, I've been here since 1921, Holly. But I, it's not true. And actually, you know, my wife told me she supported me applying for the job only because she didn't think I'd get it, because it never picked anybody internally before. But that history is not well known. 
Actually, when I'm talking to people about the process for selecting a new Comptroller General, some people think, because I came internally, it's always been that way. And it's not. 
And that's given me a grounding across the federal government that'd be hard to replicate if you didn't have that. But that doesn't mean it's essential to do the job because you have a great workforce. But it's helped shape me to be able to deal with the full range of GAO’s responsibilities as opposed to two or three or four areas that I might have had experience in if I came from the private sector or an academic institution and been an expert, say, in financial management or an expert in, you know, human capital management or other areas. 
So that that's been an asset. And I've tried to complement that with a wide variety of expert outside groups that give me outside advice. Plus, I've also brought a number of people from the executive branch and other activities into GAO. And that's helped me provide a complement from having such detailed knowledge of federal government activities and programs, state and local activities as well.

[Holly Hobbs:] When's your last day?

[Gene Dodaro:] December 29th.

[Holly Hobbs:] As you stare down December 29th and you're reflecting on your years of service, what are you most proud of?

[Gene Dodaro:] There are at least three categories of things, Holly. One is establishing GAO as a reliable partner for the Congress during times of national emergencies. During the global financial crisis, for example, the Congress had to appropriate $700 billion at the request of the chairman of Federal Reserve, Secretary Treasury, to unfreeze the credit markets. We were on the precipice of a depression potentially at that time. And we were on site right away. We provided reports every 60 days to the Congress. We made tons of recommendations. And that program, we just, a couple of years ago, did a final report. The net cost, that $700 billion program, was $31 billion. The banks repaid a lot of the money, of course a lot of it wasn't allocated. There's only about $400 billion allocated to began with. But still, it's a pretty good, effort. Now, the program wasn't liked very well because the perception that the government was bailing out Wall Street. But it achieved its objectives. It had, some problems associated with it, but far less than people predicted at that time. 

Most recently, we had a big role in the pandemic and the $2 trillion initially allocated March 2020. We had to provide monthly briefings to the Hill, report publicly every 2 months. 
And our people were affected by the pandemic just like everybody else. And so ultimately, it was $4.6 trillion allocated, we audited that with over 200 reports. But my point is, now when Congress has to take extraordinary measures to deal with extraordinary circumstances, GAO is there to provide real-time support, to provide a reliable partner to the Congress for dealing with that. Same thing with Ukraine, with a lot of the assistance there with providing a lot of real-time auditing reports there as well. So that's one category. 
Second is the establishment of some sustained management improvements across federal government. Before 1996, there was no federal audits of any major departments and agencies. We were the last segment of our economy, at the federal government level, to have audited the financial statements. It was put in place in the private sector following stock market crash in the 1920s and 30s. State and local governments couldn't borrow money unless they had financial audits. But the federal government operated for over 200 years without them. And so now we have that as a set financial tool that’s in place or produced every year for all major departments and agencies. We audit the consolidated financial statements of federal government. 

In the 1990s, I testified on the need to establish chief information officers in the federal government. We now have that infrastructure in place. It needs to operate more effectively, to be sure, but we have them in place. And so we've brought a new focus to information technology investments. So, modernization to that 1996 Clinger-Cohen Act was in the federal information Technology Reform Act of 2014, also supported legislation on the 2014 Data Act, which provide more transparency over federal spending and machine-readable downloadable forms that the public can have more information about how the federal government spending is being allocated. The Fraud Reduction Data Analytics Act of 2015 instituted in law GAO's Fraud Risk framework to prevent fraud from occurring in the first place. So these management structures are put in place across government to become part of the fabric of how to fill governments operating on a regular basis. There are others, but these are some of the highlights. So I'm proud of that because we've had a role in instituting these government-wide reforms that have staying power and provide some good support. 

And then lastly, I couldn't be more proud of the GAO workforce. We've, just have such dedicated, talented people. They work hard. They produce good reports for the Congress, actionable recommendations. They're good people doing good work, trying to make Congress as informed as possible to help them carry out their constitutional responsibilities. 
But also working hard for the taxpayers and the American people writ-large to make sure that we're providing accountability over what the federal government's doing and trying to make sure that they can have more trust and confidence in the federal government's activities. Now that's a big job. But the GAO workforce, the people here are absolutely terrific. I think we are one of the best workforces in the world, so I'm very proud of them. And, and they'll continue on after me. They’ll continue to serve the country and the Congress in an exemplary manner. I have great confidence in that.

[Holly Hobbs:] Gene, thanks for sharing your time with us. 

[Gene Dodaro:] Oh sure. 

[Holly Hobbs:] And thanks for your service.

[Gene Dodaro:] Oh, thank you, Holly. It's my pleasure to be with you.

[Holly Hobbs:] And thank you for listening to the Watchdog Report. To hear more podcasts, subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen. And make sure to leave a rating and review to let others know about the work we're doing. For more from the congressional watchdog, the U.S. Government Accountability Office, visit us at GAO.gov.